... to think that most MNers live in a bubble?

[frgr]

Seriously, the amount of times I read on here about "oh we earn 70k a year but we're really struggle to provide for little Jacob's polo lessons this year" (or some other such shite).

In real life, the average income of my family and friends is probably circa the national average. I know for a fact that my BIL is on around £6/hr and works 42 hours a week, I know that my best friend's total family income is about 22k because she was talking about mortgages a month ago... I'm talking about hard working people who go out come rain or shine and do their day's work, to provide for their families.... and then I log on here and find out MNers are posting trivial shit about being unable to afford XYZ and feeling hard done by on their incomes of "only" 3x the national average.

I don't know if I've become more sensitive to this crap since starting re-posting on here last year (after a break of about 3 years), but it seems to me that certain members of MN are totally and utterly oblivious as to what the average family is having to endure during this recession.

It's fucking unbelievable, it really is.

In your opinion, why are so many MNers out of touch with reality? Does this site cater to a different class than me? Are avg MNers just generally deluded - do I even belong here any more, with our 21k combined income, worrying about where the next school trip fee is coming from despite the fact that both of us work?

Christ.

I think we would all agree with that GooseFat and it goes for all incomes and circumstances.

at you using Jacob as the name though.. surely you mean Tarquin or Jocasta?

ahhh.. is this a thread about a thread then?

IN other words get real might mean get a middle income not a low or h igh income I suppose on thast analysis. However the reality is that everything is real whether you live on a door way on the Strand, a mud hut in Africa or a detached house. I think it's important for all peoples of all kinds of be able to put themselves into the shoes of others. Not everyone has a personality type which involved empathy and understanding and plenty of people are self centred.

As for wheelchairs etc yes for some having a low income means they cannot buy what would really help their children (and indeed there will be some people who earn too much to get what those on benefits get so it can be very much a two way poverty trap soo for some items).

The early poster on this thread who didn't count housing benefit as part of her income was quite revelatory for al ot of us who work very hard to pay that benefit for her and who very much include our housing costs in our income and who pay a lot of our income in tax.

I suppose to do fair comparisons you'd take after tax income only.

£70k = £3900 pcm = £909 a week
£40k is £2450 pcm = £565 a week
£30k 1875 pcm = £432 per week

Average UK rent is £700 pcm = 161 a week
Cost of a nursery place say £150 pw

So your person on £30k after their nursery place and rent has about £121 (plus partner's income) less if more chidlren.
Person on £40k has £254
£70k £598 per week

So your 30kers may have a net income after housing and childcare adn tax of £121 for food clothes travel expenses to work etc. That may well not be as much as some on benefits depending on numbers of children. Whereas the £40k one with the £254 left probably is better off and obviously the £70k er with £598 left after those costs.

Fgs.
Everyone on here is different, and it's the same in real life. Just because some people are rich (in your eyes) doesn't mean they don't have questions and need advice. It might seem insensitive but there are people from all walks of life here, so you will get some people who are insensitive, some who are rude, some who are a bit thick etc.
You will also get uneducated, Oxford educated, family money etc etc.
And you might get older women who have been established in their jobs/ careers for a lot longer and therefore earn more. That's a huge difference to a 20 something sahm with first baby and not much time to establish a career.
It is the variety of people on here. And there will always be different values/salaries/class blah blah.
The op in that particular thread is guilty of being insensitive, that's it. She has an issue that she wanted a bit of advice on.
And fwiw. £70k is what 4k per month? 2k for mortgage 1k at least for childcare. Leaves 1k per month for car, insurance, all utilities. Council tax here is £200. Maybe phone and sky tv. And then food. It doesn't stretch that far.
Surely you can see how it adds up.

This topic pops up quite often (unsurprisingly)
It always turns into a massive bunfight too

It's all relative.

I repeat - it's all relative.

I think it's kind of crude to post on here your actual salaries

Small minded self-righteous bollocks. My sister has to earn 30k gross to cover childcare and commute before she earns a penny she gets to keep. But apparently she can't moan because she's earning too much.

Surely your grandparents should be able to swim by now?

I dont think its crude to post salaries when its anonymous

at Takeresponsibility.

Hoovercraft - Hmm - I guess I don't think of MN as truly anonymous as if you know folk on here, you build up friendships and therefore, to my mind (granted, not to others) announcing your salary is not massively different from disclosing to your RL friends.

That said, I've just joined the MN panel and that required you to tick a box...

There probably are those on 70 k but there are also paupers on benefits like myself. people start threads about us and say we should be put in the stocks!

The £70k after tax childcare and rent has £600 a week which of course is al ot better than many but they might instead haev double the average rent cost and 3 under 5s (as we had at one point) so the childcare bill might be higher than for one child.

What interests me more is why some of us can always find work or generate business and others don't. Part of the reason for that will be where people live in the country althoughl oads of us have had to move from family for work of course as indeed have I. Another reason will be inability to think of business ideas. Another might be lack of aptitude or qualifications.

Between us we earn around 35k. Sounds so much when written down. We have a lot of debt, a big mortgage and we're always skint. No bubble here!

Really?

I'm in the wrong bubble I think. Bugger!

I think MN is a good mix of people on the whole but I usually linger on the SN board and disability tends to = poverty.

I DO find that in RL more and more parents in the playground I meet are on very high incomes and yet think they are very badly off. As George Michael sang, we are in a time when "the rich declare themselves poor". These people buy new GAP and Boden clothes for their kids, have all the latest gadgets, can afford lovely attic conversions etc.

I do feel that many people have completely lost touch with what it is to be on a low income or be poor. I don't feel that MS reflects this more than RL, but if you live in a poor area, you may not brush shoulders with the wealthy types and vice versa so it is a shock when you realise just how high some people's income is

YABU because national average is irrelevant to most people's lives.

It depends mainly where you live. The average salary in London for a man is 50k and that's not including bonuses (which are pretty standard for many jobs in London).

Apart from the astronomical property prices, childcare costs here mean that I personally have to earn £36,000 working FT jsut to break even on my childcare - not including costs of commuting (also astronomical). Yes of course we could move and we probably will but DH's job is dependent on being here and anyway, we like it here - but it is possible to feel, if not exactly poor, then certainly not rich on a salary that is way above the national average.

The SE is full of people who feel they are poor because they are comparing themselves with even richer people. I think it would be a humbling experience if everyone was made to live in a poor, Northern area for a year of their lives. That would lessen the fake claims of poverty

The SE is full of people who feel they are poor because they are comparing themselves with even richer people. I think it would be a humbling experience if everyone was made to live in a poor, Northern area for a year of their lives. That would lessen the fake claims of poverty

I agree national wage average is irrelevant. Its supposed to be something like 25k isnt it? People on that here as a wage are seen as extremely affluent. I know someone on 25k and everyone sees them as rich lol.

if any one in the uk (pretty much) who compared themselves with the residents of the true third world, they'd find themselves
to be outrageously well off.

our household income is in the 70k+ bracket and we live in london and are cfbc. only had that level of income in the last couple of years and loads of it goes to pay off the mortgage asap (silly property prices here). so living in a 1 bed in a cheap part of town.
life is comfortable but we have no savings or pension etc. even though we are both not far off 40. if we added kids into that mix i think we'd be not that well off. it's one of the reasons we aren't going to / haven't done so.

i think it's all relative though isn't it? people living on 22k are rich compared to someone who doesn't even have shoes and has to walk miles to fetch water living in a mud hut somewhere. and if you are on 70k and mainly socialise with people on 250k you probably feel relatively poor.

ilovecrisp

I don't have £200k equity (unfortunately), infact it's shared ownership!

Oh and I am part time because when child was in nursery I would have been worse off and still work part time... well that is just a mass of complicated reasons...

I don't think I am poor though, I think the News at Ten think I am...

Infact I am rich in that I finally have mastered the balance in terms of work and school mummy

Who needs a holiday and brand new bloody car!

You will always feel poor if everyone round you is richer than you - its the relative difference that matters, not the absolute figures.

I know millionaires who dream of winning the lottery, people who live in 4 million pound houses but think they live hand-to-mouth - some people will just never consider themselves to be rich. Money doesn't buy happiness and all that...