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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

thinking owning a house is a waste of time, as it just gets takenoff you when you get old/put in ahome

229 replies

ohnanaWHATSMYNAMEohnana · 15/01/2011 23:30

one of my aunts has had to go into a care home, serious dementia needs fulltime help

but everything shes worked for and saved for looks liek it will be taken from her.

OP posts:
Appletrees · 16/01/2011 09:49

It was bubble who introduced the NHS; I am well aware of the difference.

The kind of issues decribed as "social care" in the elderly very often constitute "health care" in the young. But in the elderly they're renamed.

There is a very nasty hypocrisy in those who shout about social and welfare care for the young how dare they take away my library card yet for a frail elderly person who can't lift a spoon: "you're not disabled -- pay for it".

Horrible, horrible hypocrisy.

Appletrees · 16/01/2011 09:54

oh crumbs..the library cad aside soud be in brackets -- anyway i'm sure if you're interested you get it

edam · 16/01/2011 10:47

apple, was it you with the Spanish? Gremlins are following you around!

Have every sympathy with anyone who wants to campaign for free personal care. I agree with Marmot - it SHOULD be free. But not with the greedy who think the taxpayer should fit the bill so they can inherit the house their elderly relative doesn't need any more.

Free personal care wouldn't mean residential or nursing homes are entirely free anyway - it would just apply to the cost of support with personal hygiene, feeding, lifting and so on. Not accommodation or staffing apart from time spent on personal care.

You are right that there is a messy overlap between social care and healthcare. It used to be a cliche that someone who needed help to have a bath had a social care bath (charged) if the person doing it was a carer supplied by the council, but a free NHS bath if the person doing it was a health worker. It's still the same procedure.

If someone who has Alzheimer's needs help with feeding or bathing, is that a healthcare need or a social care need? Marmot redefined this as personal care, that should be free at the point of use, to solve the terminology/charging problem. And I'd agree. Sadly the government at the time did not (Blair's).

Scottish government did which led to complaints that English taxpayers were funding free personal care for Scottish people while having to pay for their own. One of the trickier problems of devolution.

edam · 16/01/2011 10:49

foot the bill, obv!

Appletrees · 16/01/2011 10:57

Interesan eran..Yes those OS what happens if i dont correcto every Wordpress as i type on my Android

Appletrees · 16/01/2011 10:58

I. have bernardo breaking spanish on those thread too.. i mran earlier yo this thread..

Appletrees · 16/01/2011 11:04

To go back to the op: it concerns a woman with dememtia who need full time help. Thatcase is a health issue, a health need. Why should she have to pay for it? When i can access free yoga lesión? It is utterly, total stupid and the very strong welfare defenders who ríen tail on this, ARE being hypocritical in my opinión.

Appletrees · 16/01/2011 11:05

Sigh

Yoga lessons

Who turn tail

Etc

TheHeathenOfSuburbia · 16/01/2011 12:29

Hang on a sec, what's all this about feckless renters blowing their money?

Our mortgage is about £800 a month, renting something similar would be at least £1500 a month. So actually, it's the mortgage folks with the extra money to 'piss up the wall', purely by the luck of having been in a position to buy in the late 90's. Or before.

Not to mention, in 20 years' time, we'll still be paying £800 a month, and rents will be, er, ... more. If inflation was only 3%, would be £2700 after 20 years I think.

kerstina · 16/01/2011 13:22

Am very interested in this topic and am glad it is being discussed. Did anyone else see Gerry Robinsons dementia care homes ? It was depressing as it showed homes that were failing and the standard of care was appalling but also showed homes that were a shining example.
I am not so interested in inheritance being protected(especially after watching that program about wills the other day !) I think its fair that homes are means tested but think the main point all homes should be excellent in the same way that nurseries have to be. Carers should be well qualified and have much better status and pay.
Cantspel think you are amazing and there should be more incentives for the family to get more involved. We should not just bundle these old people off and forget about them.
I was disappointed Labour did not get back in as care of the elderly was one of their priorities and Andy Burnham was doing a lot of good work. If i had to choose between going back to free grants for all students and excellent standards of care for the elderly i would go for better care.

alemci · 16/01/2011 13:28

It annoys me as well. I get fed up of being lectured how i must save for my old age whilst those who seem to make no provision get everything paid for.

It does not pay to be thrifty in GB and i would like to pass my assets on to my children. One pays enough tax over the years.

TrillianAstra · 16/01/2011 13:29

I agree with rinabean at the very beginning.

If you need very expensive care and you can afford to pay for it - why should you get it for free? We have a duty to provide free care for those who cannot afford it, but why should the state (that's us, actually) pay for a care home for someone who can afford to pay for it themselves, just so that theri children can inherit their house?

bubbleandsqueaks · 16/01/2011 14:23

Spot on Trillian

ilovecrisps · 16/01/2011 14:31

Sorry your Aunt needs to go into a home but why should I pay for it?

Her generation didn't pay enough tax to cover these things just look upon it as her having deferred the payment, luckily she was in a position to do that.

If her children want the money from the house they will have to provide the care or pay for others to.

edam · 16/01/2011 14:35

Ditto Trillian.

Kerstina's right, though - the debate about care of the elderly should be about standards of care first.

I know (vaguely, through work) a man who has received an honour for services to healthcare. He runs a chain of nursing homes that were investigated by the regulator for treating residents badly - and had indeed done just that (probably far more widely than the handful of cases the regulator looked at). But that's no bar to being treated as Mr Big and Important and sitting on government committees, apparently.

2blessed2bstressed · 16/01/2011 14:39

I don't want to inherit my parents home. I want them to have the best possible care in their last years on earth. If that means that they have to go into a nursing home and their house is sold to pay for it, then that's fine by me.
I'd care for them myself if it's possible - although I doubt it will be. They live 150 miles away because they wanted to have their retirement in a place they'd chosen (moved about a lot due to my dads work), and I stayed put in the town we'd been in since I was 15. Neither of them want to come back here, and have stated they're happy to be in a nursing home in that area. Which also makes it difficult for any of their children to visit regularly - I live the closest!
Can anyone tell me what happens if one of them needs to go into a home, and the other one is still fit to live at home? Will the house be sold from under them?

kerstina · 16/01/2011 14:47

No as far as i know they will not take some ones home off them when there is still a spouse there.
They did not with my Uncle but although they did own their own house they did not have lots of money. My Aunt got pension credits and they even were entitled to help with funeral costs.

space2010 · 16/01/2011 22:34

2blessedebstressed Kerstina is correct, if a person is still well enough to stay in the family home then they can, this will not effect them. Can I also raise another point, if a person is so unwell and needs a higher degree of nursing care they can have their fees paid by the NHS. The PCT will carryout their own assessment to determine if the persons needs are at such a level that they require constant nursing. An example of this need may be open wounds , ie ulcers. Can I also say that it is only a very small percentage of people that do require to move into a residential home.

chibi · 17/01/2011 06:29

my grandparents home was sold to help pay for their care in nursing homes

i was sad for several reasons

sad because it felt like a point of no return for them

sad because of all of my childhood memories in their home

sad because i know they had wanted to stay for as long as it were possible

but not, strangely, because i felt deprived of an inheritance.

i can understand people's anxiety about selling their homes if say their children were for some reason unable to work and earn a living, and they wanted to ensure they were provided for

is this the case for everyone crowing 'ooh they aren't getting my house'?

it's not as if the proceeds are being pissed up a wall/spent on quangos/paying the salary of a civil servant - your money, from the equity on your house is still spent on you

out of curiousity, is there a country where minimal payments into a social safety net entitles one to say 15-20 years of high quality residential care with absolutely no top up fees?

INeedALieIn · 17/01/2011 07:01

POWER OF ATTORNEY is essential.

Everyone should have one as it allows choice and your wishes to be carried out at a time when you are deemed unfit to make a decision.

This doesn't mean that you can avoid selling your hour house, but does allow more options (family could rent it and use funds to pay for your care etc).

The main thing is not all care homes charge the same fees. Without POWER OF ATTORNEY the state can sell your house, select your care home and provide you with a weekly allowance.

My great aunt had her house sold by the state, family had NO CHOICE in which care home she was moved to, she receives £15 per week allowance. This is to cover clothes/underwear, toiletries, xmas presents. (In her condition the underwear cost alone is not cheap IYSWIM).

It seems unfair that all of her choice and independence has been taken away due to a lack power of attorney. Had this been in place her children, the people who know her best, would have been allowed to choose how to best spend her money on her care.

Appletrees · 17/01/2011 07:13

I don't want my parents' house. I want my children to have my house

The money quite often is pissed up the wall actually. Sorry, but it's discrimination against frail elderly. Can't lift a spoon or walk two yards at thirty disabled. Same at eighty fuck you, pay for it.

Appletrees · 17/01/2011 07:14

Dont know where the strikes came from.

cory · 17/01/2011 07:42

What 2blessed and chil said. This question came up for us the other year, as my MIL became paralysed with cancer. And the house which she had intended as our inheritance was sold to provide her with the kind of care home she needed, rather than the kind of care home she would have got on the NHS. And I was very happy. Because, despite anything my MIL might have thought before she became old and ill, her quality of life still matters. Just as much as ours does. With the difference that we are young and can work for our own quality of life.

ccpccp · 17/01/2011 10:49

Old age shouldnt be viewed as a medical disability. Its just old age - comes to all of us and needs to be planned for.

I guess this is why those who planned for it resent watching everything they built in their lives disappear, while those who didnt get the same services, for free.

The moral of the story is enjoy the lot and throw yourselves at the mercy of the state when the hangover kicks in. If you want to leave anything to your kids then do it early. Far too many lonely pensioners in large houses where a bungalow or granny annex with increased grandchild contact would be a much better lifestyle.

curlymama · 17/01/2011 11:05

''Sorry your Aunt needs to go into a home but why should I pay for it?''

In that case, why should I pay for anyone to go into a home? Why do you think those without a house are more deserving than those with?

Why should any of us pay tax to fund anything that we don't personally need? Hmm