To feel sorry for (and think the punishment is too long) for the 18 year old who threw the fire extinguisher in the protests

[LaurieFairyonthetreeEatsCake]

2 years, 8 months in jail

here

That's a looooong time. Is the reasoning supposed to be that it's a deterrent?

There are people with asbo's who cause no end of trouble and don't get sentences like this.

kungfupanda is absolutely correct.

Personally, I'm not altogether comfortable with sentencing on outcome of a crime rather than intent/criminality of the offender since this can lead to wildly disparate results for what is, essentially, exactly the same behaviour.

To illustrate imagine the following two scenarios:

Driver A is doing 30 mph in a 20 zone. He rounds a bend and is caught in a speed trap. Result: a fine fo £150 and possibly three points on his license.

Driver B is also doing 30 mph in the same 20 zone. He rounds the same bend. This time, however, instead of a speed trap there is a young child in the road who is struck and killed. Result: Driver B finds himself doing a 5 stretch.

Driver A and Driver B have exactly the same level of inent to commit a crime and criminal culpability. The difference between them is, ultimately, one of chance.

Should they, therefore, get a similar sentence, or should they receive the wildly different sentences our current system would impose?

In support of kungfupanda's arguments - for a start, only the judges who did the sentencing has the full reasoning and the full facts that led to this decision.

Someone did research on this (was a while back, so can't remember who), and they found that:

• there were cases where members of the public were not provided with the full facts of the case (as in, all the time) and they thought that the judge's sentencing was too lenient
• when provided with the facts as presented to the judge, they decided that actually the sentence was too harsh.

those saying that the UK's justice system is corrupt/out of touch/useless are being a bit dim. The UK has one of the best criminal justice system's in the world. Imagine what would have happened to this individual in China, or Iran.

"you can't treat defendant one the same as defendant three."

Well, you see, kungfupannda, that's where I would.

Leaving this thread now, too upsetting. Thank you for trying to explain how this "system" works, but I just don't have the warmth in my heart to have an ounce of sympathy for people to go out with intention to hurt others, and it's just due to luck that they don't injure or kill someone whilst doing it.

I think he got off lucky, actually.

Killing someone would have been far, far worse.

Also, they would not just look at the act (in criminal law terms - the actus reus), but also what he was thinking at the time (the mens rea).

When throwing the fire extinguisher into a crowd, presumably he would intend to do harm, as a reasonable person would know that doing such a thing could badly injure/kill someone.

The difference with driving offences is that someone may not always intend to cause harm (like in Island Moose's second example), so should they receive a lighter or harsher sentence?

I would have given the little twerp 5 years.

I hope he ends up in a horrid dead end job as well

I have not studied the judges comments. But it may be an establishment sentence...Not many judges who are not establishment types.

I assume you dont get the job if you are a radical. There is one female judge I rather like. She came from an ordinary background
and does impersonations at legal gigs.

It got her into bother once; I will tell you about that later

Way too long when you compare it to sentencing for much worse crimes.It will probably ruin his whole life.18 yr olds are impulsive and feel invincible He was reckless and a fool but 6 months and community service would have had th same effect

I have not studied the judges comments. But it may be an establishment sentence...Not many judges who are not establishment types.

I assume you dont get the job if you are a radical. There is one female judge I rather like. She came from an ordinary background
and does impersonations at legal gigs.

It got her into bother once; I will tell you about that later

Well getting any job will be quite a challenge.

Prison changes people. He will have to fit in in order to survive. One of my colleagues (a Cambridge graduate) ended up in jail after being convicted of theft from a library. The change that he underwent was huge - he majorly bulked up and did weights every day just to stop being picked on. It was almost impossible to recognize him a couple of years later. No chance of getting a decent job with a record, so he has ended up back in prison just a couple of years later.

To those of you who think the sentence was too harsh, do you think that intent to harm/kill should be punished?

If you don't, why not?

If you do, then what you you think he was hoping would happen when he threw that fire extinguisher?
a) was he hoping it wouldn't hit anyone? (in which case, why throw it at all?)
b) or was he hoping it would?

he didnt kill anyone by sheer luck, stupid idiotic man would you of said the same if it was yours parents or children stood underneath, i am not interested in what somebodies, cousins, uncle got for drink driving last year, the fact is he could of killed or brain damaged someone ruining many people lives, not to mention if the person who got hit was injured but not killed it could of cost the tax payer hundreds of thousands in rehabilitation, counselling, physio etc etc, serves him right as far as i am concerned!

I think he is very lucky to only have a prison sentence and not the death of numerous people on his conscience for the rest of his life....

I am afraid that whilst I feel some sympathy that such a stupid, thoughtless act on a day of heightened emotion will almost certainly ruin this mans entire life, utter disregard for the rights, safety, feelings and liberties of other human beings is rampant in certain elements of todays society.

From small children to grown adults, the idea of punishment seems to almost be considered abhorrrent by some people and it is this that has caused a lot of the "broken britain" type crap we see going on.

I was in London on the day of the riots and most people were very respectful but those that were not were terrifying, even to the other students and thier families who just wanted their right to protest and I think it is about time that the people in charge of governing our country showed that our right to free speech is not up for abuse in this manner and does not entitle you, regardless of age or social status to treat society or anyone in it with such little respect. This man effectively did not agree with the laws of the land and tried to hurt people because of it. Stupid and done without intent - yes. Incredibly important to show zero tolerance - absolutely.

He has only himself to blame for the actions and the consequences.

Barring circumstances as what happens in wars or the like, no one can ruin your life but you.

Yes, people make mistakes, but some mistakes are graver than others.

Some people have to learn this the hard way.

Life is tough.

No. He was lucky not to have hurt someone.

Yanbu

I do wonder of the people with sympathy for this thug, would be so sympathetic if he wasn't a student

Given that he clearly wasn't trying to not hurt someone when he did it and the severity of the harm he was likely to do i think the sentence is fair. It will be harder for him now but it will only ruin his life if he lets it.

As for the poster who talked about protecting his "rights", half the problem is that people view subsidised education or healthcare etc as a "right" rather than a generous benefit from participating in society. We are very fortunate to live in a society with a safety net. One can debate whether we should do more or less of this depending on your ideology but never take it forgranted.

expat to take that a bit further...Yes, life can but tough from the cradle to the grave. But English judges from my knowledge do not usually come from normal backgrounds.
But the court would have gone through the young mans life before sentence. Some guidelines are handed down from government..
But judges have some freedom when sentencing.

More sympathetic because he is a student?Perhaps. I fear a lot of the public sympathy is misguided because of people's perceived "rightness" of the cause he was protesting for. In my view this does not excuse it one iota, but this clearly isn't the view of some of my RL and Facebook friends.

Some of them even go so far as to say that nothing was ever changed without violence, at which point I lose the will to live.

Why does anyone think wilful damage,harm and actions that could result in a manslaughter charge are justified by the phrase 'standing up for their rights'?! All idiots like this do is give people cause to criticize all protesters and overshadow the real reason for the protests.

Wonder whether the reaction would be the same if the extinguisher had landed on another student - or a toddler - or a pram....

I do feel sorry for him. He looks terrified in that photo on the link.

He is just a 6th former. He has ruined his life before it has even started. He claims he aimed it at a space on the ground, so he wasn't aiming it at any one.

It was a moment of stupidity during a time of hightened emotion.

The sentence is too harsh IMHO, but worse than that, is the criminal record he will have to carry around for life.