To feel sorry for (and think the punishment is too long) for the 18 year old who threw the fire extinguisher in the protests

[LaurieFairyonthetreeEatsCake]

2 years, 8 months in jail

here

That's a looooong time. Is the reasoning supposed to be that it's a deterrent?

There are people with asbo's who cause no end of trouble and don't get sentences like this.

"considering others do worse and in a far more pre-meditated fashion and get away with a much lesser sentence."

Then campaign for others to get longer sentences. It's easy to pull out examples of really awful crimes, or if someone has had a family member attacked, or killed, feel this is too harsh because someone else was given a lesser sentence, but each case is examined on its merits and sentencing has certain guidelines.

If the sentences are out of line with public views, then the public need to get their MPs to reconsider different acts of parliament and push for the justice system to change the penalties for different crimes.

I am not looking at how long or short someone was sentenced for some other crime because I don't see that some other sentence should alter this sentence at all.

Swinging the extinguisher so it would go towards the police was also pre-meditated, in my view.

"who think the long incarceration is a fine punishment"

It's a punishment, fair and square, and only about half as long as the maximum possible (according to the BBC report).

Not sure anyone would say it was a 'fine punishment' - simple fact is that there'd be no need for any punishment if this young man had not brought it on himself.

As for what was true in the 70s and what will happen to this person, a lot has changed wrt conditions and facilities.

He might well come out with a chip on his shoulder and be an angry young man for a few years, knowing he messed it all up for himself by being part of a crowd and getting carried away. Society didn't make him do this, nor did anyone in his vicinity.

As for the students on the ground, some were very angry this was done, as it brought took it from being a peaceful demonstration into something evil and threatening, doing their cause no good at all.

I have seen him described as a "first time visitor to the city" as if that makes his action any different to someone living in London, or it being his hundredth visit to the city.

I went to / from London as a teenager (travel discount as my Mum worked for British Rail) but never in a hundred years would I think it a good idea to chuck a fire extinguisher from a roof. While at college we (*) were on the 7th floor and no-one would throw anything from any window, let along a heavy item!

What does it matter, whether he was in London or some other city, be it Southampton, Birmingham, or Bristol.

Nobody in any of those cities would expect a person to sling a fire extinguisher at a group of police and find it any more acceptable or objectionable, than in London or Edinburgh or Liverpool or Belfast.

Baffled that 'first time visitor' is thought in any way significant.

(*) started college age 16, like many of my peers, so more 'immature' in theory

'Have you heard when the cop who injured Archie Meadows so seriously is going to appear in the criminal courts? I wonder how many years in jail he will get????'

That.is.a.separate.criminal.matter.from.this.one.

Other.criminal.cases.are.another.matter.from.this.case.

I'm not a right-winger, either.

And given that he'll be out in half the time if not sooner if the sentence is reduced on appeal, I find it's fitting for throwing a fire extinguisher into a crowd, any crowd, from the top of a building (which the individual also entered illegally.

Oh, also, what NetworkGuy said.

It's Alfie Meadows, too, not Archie.

It is true, however, and I hope you will agree, expat, that if the police are involved in acts of violence, it seems all too often they do not get taken to court for their action (even if they do get suspended during the investigation, and their career progression is put on hold, for a while).

There have been some very significant problems over police activities and the Independent Police Complaints Commission are either being given duff information or don't manage to ask the right questions. I'm not in favour of police 'thugs' either - see Guardian search for IPCC - some of the blunders that have caused headlines.

Although, also to be fair, anything about the IPCC ought to be in a separate thread.

Not too long ago a 16yo blogger was manhandled by several policemen when he was taking some photographs. I can understand some annoyance at taking photos of Army Cadets assembling for a Memorial Day march, but The Register (I think) had quite a piece about the way the youngster was asking why he was being obstructed when taking legitimate photographs in a public place.

The audio was put online with a few stills (before his camera was taken from him) and the voice of one member of the police was showing great annoyance that with nothing legitimate to use as a reason, the youngster was running rings round the copper, and the copper getting angry did nothing to help him attempt to justify his action. It was an example of flexing their muscles, but fortunately didn't result in much more than a somewhat manhandled teenager that time

Can't believe this thread is still ongoing! Why give a shit about a stupid idiot who clearly didn't give a shit about the safety of others. If i was his mother i would be so ashamed. Relatives of mine and children of friends have been in prison at a similar age due to 'youthful stupidity' eg fighting, theft.
Bet none of you would've protested against their (also deserved) sentences though. Because they aren't from 'decent' families with a 'promising' future ahead and so-called 'impeccable' character.

Oh, I totally agree, Network.

I'm with NetworkGuy some more.

He would have got less time if he'd stabbed someone, thats the crappy justice of his country. Nothing to do with what 'could have happened'.Its what happened thats important. Its perfectly ok for the police to batter a man in a wheelchair, or hit someone over the head with a truncheon and hospitalize or even kill him as has happened, when all these folk were doing were peacefully protesting. Strangely, judges complain they can only hand down minimal sentences (ie less than this one) when dealing with ASBO idiots who terrorize people, thugs who mug and injure elderly people, usual lowlife. Amazingly, theyve managed to pull out a longer sentence for someone who didnt actually kill or maim anybody. Basically this has been done as vengeful spite, to ensure he has a criminal record and is fucked in terms of future employment, and to put people off protesting. Maybe he was being stupid. But the boy is not a murderer or molester and I feel very sorry for him.

That's what I think DeeCeeDee
I made the point earlier in the thread and was absolutely pulverised by other posters, who accused me of wanting a bunfight.
Two women a week are murdered by their spouse and the average sentence is 4 years, which means many are receiving less than that. I gave an example of a man who received 18 months for killing his wife, and was jumped on because "it was only a single blow that killed her "

I will say what I said earlier: the sentencing in this fire extinguisher case is about par for the crime, but to pretend the justice system is fair when it allows wife-murderers off with the same or less says a lot about the way women's lives are valued.

"Its perfectly ok for the police to batter a man in a wheelchair, or ..."

I think everyone here would agree that the police must not be immune from prosecution when they act in those ways.

"they've managed to pull out a longer sentence for someone who didnt actually kill or maim anybody."

The maximum sentence available for the crime of violent disorder is 5 years according to the BBC, so I can only assume that in the case of those who have ASBOs, either they are juveniles or the maximum sentences are lower for the charges they go into court for.

Again, comparison with other cases on other charges is of limited value - if the sentence seems too short you have an MP and can express your views to them on such errors.

As for vengeful spite - even if he had been given 6 months, he'd have a criminal record and in your words, DeeCeeDee, "fucked for future employment".

Sorry, he is adult enough to go drinking, he would be allowed to drive if he has passed a driving test, he could be married, and a parent. At what age do you think he should be capable of knowing that throwing a fire extinguisher endangers lives ? 25 going on 10, perhaps (or is 10 below the age where a young person is deemed able to know right from wrong in law?)

sakura - "but to pretend the justice system is fair" - given the number of examples, I doubt anyone has claimed that the whole system is fair.

Happy to acknowledge lots of other crimes seem to have been dealt with 'too lightly' but comparisons have little place in whether this was an excessive sentence for this act, which is at the heart of the AIBU question.

Pleased to see you wrote "the sentencing in this case is about par for the crime" as it implies you feel this sentence was reasonable.

LaraJade wrote : "relatives of mine and children of friends have been in prison"

Sorry to read that - one of my nephews went with a bunch of fools in his teens and twenties. One died after falling through a warehouse roof (I only heard about that years later). I wish my nephew had joined the Army and had both training and discipline as he was a strong fit young man but easily led into mischief. He never got into trouble that caused him to end in up in court, though that might have been more by luck than being on the straight and narrow in his late twenties and into his thirties.

Unfortunately, he died in an accident a little over a year ago, perhaps somewhat intoxicated, when he fell from a balcony of a flat. He had split from his first serious partner some time before, but my sister is grandmother to two young girls whose Mum is a bit off the rails herself (drinking, clubbing, etc) but life has to go on for those left behind.

NetworkGuy- "Pleased to see you wrote "the sentencing in this case is about par for the crime" as it implies you feel this sentence was reasonable."

I'm not implying , NetworkGuy. I wrote that sentence because I do belive the sentence is reasonable for the crime, and I have been stressing that in all my posts

however

when having a discussion it is generally allowed to bring up a context, and the context I wanted to introduce was that sadistic murderers (wife-murderers) often get away with a similar, or lesser, sentence, which is not on in any kind of reality. Wife-murder takes place often after a long build of of DV, getting progressively worse before the murder is actually comitted. The DV was a precursor to murder.

I don't think you can compare a boy throwing a fire extinguisher into a crowd, with a sadistic wife-murderer. The two crimes are different.

Spouse-murderers should be sentenced to thirty years, is my point.

And it's relevant to the thread because I truly am shocked that you can get less of a sentence for murdering your wife, looking into her eyes as the life drains out of her by your own hands, and the stupid actions of that protester

NetworkGuy - sad to hear about your nephew.
Sakura - was shocked recently when a man was sentenced to only approx 2 years for strangling his wife in bed after she told him about an affair. The judge said he was 'provoked' and of 'good character'!!!
Justice IS a joke here it seems like to me.

I also am sorry, networkguy that you have had family sorrow (re your nephew). Young lads, some of them - take a LONG time to grow up, and they're known to be actually more vulnerable than girls in their day to day lives (I read that they are far more likely to be attacked at night, mugged etc.) They're also more likely to put themselves in the way of danger - more inclined to take risks than girls.
I suppose you are right that the vile business of the violence meted out against Alfie Meadows is really for another thread - but I just think the two cases ARE linked, in a way - one involved risking causing serious injury or death; the other DID cause very serious injury. Much, much worse.

Neurosurgery is always serious, I just hope it might be possible for Alfie Meadows to make a full recovery.

I'm extremely sorry for Edward Woollard and his mother, family and friends, but I'm even sorrier for Alfie Meadows, because there is the possibility he will suffer to an extent from the attack on him for the rest of his life. It's a sad business all round.

I'm fearful justice may NOT be done in the case of Alfie Meadows (and also in the less serious, but still awful case of assault on the disabled student twice dragged out of his wheelchair and hauled along the ground.) The cops inflicted other injuries, too - I know of one witnessed by a relative.

He pleaded guilty, and was put up before the judge who accordingly had to sentence him in line with the relevant guidelines. He was given half the maximum sentence for what was a serious incident of violent disorder? Where does the vengeful spite come in? What evidence is there that the judge was determined to fuck up his life? Because as this thread shows, it is entirely possible for people to differ greatly and honestly in their opinion of what the appropriate sentence is.

Each individual court case stands alone and is not really relevant for comparison. If you read the Daily Mail then you'd believe that a mass murderer would only get a few months in prison. The reality is that some sentences do seem odd at times - usually because they appear too lenient on the surface - but unless someone is prepared to read the transcripts of the entire hearing, then they're not really in a great place to pass judgement.

FWIW, I think that the young man concerned has been fortunate.

smallwhitecat, please read larajade's post above, and tell her that she's wrong about the man sentence to 2 years. Tell her to go away.

Two women a week end up dead at the hands of their spouse- who receives an average of four years.

WHat is murder to me is manslaughter in the eyes of the judicial system. A man who was recently sentenced to eighteen months for killing his wife told the court she'd thrown plates at him.
SHe was dead, like. NOt around to defend herself, but the court took his word for it.

smallwhitecat, can you argue your point wihout the "sigh" "she's not the only one" comments.
It's really difficult to read your posts when you're making digs like that.