To think a police officer should have more sense?

[nappyaddict]

I have just seen a police officer say on his Facebook page "has finally got my car to move and has now found a great big fucking scratch on the door, pikeys....."

piffle, it's not racist.

pikeys and jakeys aren't a race!

both are terms that negatively describe people who have an association with low level crime or lazy, slovenly behaviour - as Charlie's mom suggests.

and the "traveller community" isn't a race either for that matter.

Within the "traveller community" you have: Roma, gypsies, Irish travellers/gypsies, hippies/new agers and ecos etc etc.

Of all those sub groups only some would actually say they belonged to a race of people, rather than a community.

now, i agree that travelling folk have legally and socially a very hard time in the UK and Europe, but I think the automatic reading of pikey as gypsy in this case is probably wrong.

p.s - a Chavii is the Romany word for child, used by my friends growing up as a slightly insulting term of endearment. funny how words change meaning, eh?

It is a racist term for gypsies which are a distinct ethnic group.

It is a very offensive term.

crystalline, I am afraid you are wrong. Travellers are recognised as a distinct ethnic group. Calling someone a pikey or a jakey is akin to using the n word.

Would time travellers be a distinct ethnic group too?

You might want to try reading the thread crystalline before you call it piffle, since you are in fact totally wrong.

I had never even heard the term pikey till I moved to kent - was familiar with "gippo" from up north though - here pikey is widely used by people who would claim NOT to be racist. I think they are wrong though.
Both are derogatory terms that are based on a prejudiced stereotype - so to say a person is like that stereotype for whatever reason is offensive

do people still get away with saying "thats a bit Irish" about something daft/mixed up/topsy turvey? - the implication being the Irish are all thick/daft/slow?

I thought we had moved on

and yes, a police officer should have more sense thsan to express that sort of thing openly

YANBU OP

time travellers? If you analysed them on a genetic, cultural,linguistic and heritage level and they match the criteria, then yes.

And I hate when people call things a bit Irish in that way. Nobbers.

scurryfunge

I think words change meaning and pikey, to me, (having grown up in the South East in a Gypsy community some twenty years ago), has definitely changed its meaning, and so has Chav - hence my example.

What was once offensive and related directly to only one racial group/ethnicity is now broader in its application and in its meaning.

Legal cases of Incitement to Racial Hatred regarding the use of "Pikey" have highly mixed results and usually in and of itself it can't be proven to have the same impact as other words/phrases that have far stronger associations with particular racial groups.

I think this again relates directly to what you refer to as Travellers versus the "travelling community."

Ok, it's just playing with words/phrases, but there's a big difference between Carney folk of hugely mixed heritage (for example) and Irish Travellers and then also travelling people with no racial/ethnic history or culture of travelling.

I can't believe people are still spouting that shit about the term blackboard being banned and having to sing baa baa sodding rainbow sheep ffs. I despair. Next you'll be reckoning 'they' are trying to ban Christmas and that alcoholics get an extra tenner a week off the dole to buy beer. And btw, you also have an ethnicity, all of you.

Altkinmum - I'd be looking for a new school if I were you!

'Black' is not in itself considered an offensive term is it? In fact,if I said 'my ethnic friend' then that might be considered to be being a bit offensive, because as someone else said, we are all ethnic. So 'bah bah ethnic sheep' makes no sense at all to me, and I say that as a fully paid up member of the pc brigade.

How can you have an ethnic sheep?

crystalline,

Just because you do not understand the term "pikey" as being offensive, it does not mean it isn't. If more people take on its use and it becomes more common, then it doesn't water the term down to become acceptable.

But ba ba ethnic sheep is potentially offensive where black sheep is not. It's just a song about a sheep with black wool.

That's what I don't understand.

Surely something is offensive if people are offended by it, so although some people claim to use 'pikey' in a non offensive way, if people who are ethnically Romany feel offended by it, then it's an offensive and racist term.

To me 'I can say it because I don't have racist intent' is a non argument, it's a racist word meant to imply a particular ethnic group behave in a stereotypical way.

Find a different word that doesn't offend - not too hard surely?

I see the point about the offensiveness and all, however the bit about him being a policeman is perhaps not really that relevant - he's off-duty. He's not obliged to be 'The Policeman' all the time.

He's still a reckless arse though!

scurryfunge

I didn't say it wasn't offensive; I said it wasn't racist.

there are so many words and their meanings which are appropriated and changed. "That's so gay!" , for example, could have many different interpretations depending on the context in which it's used.

Some words do change - sometimes people with a political or social agenda deliberately take and use words that are deemed socially unacceptable and try and increase their use specifically with the aim of reducing the negative association/reclaiming usage meaning of the word.

My irritation with the original discussion is the conflation of the word pikey with a specific race of peoples, when actually pikey in common usage no longer refers to one racial group, ditto chav.

Does that make it less offensive, or acceptable...? Possibly. Depending on whether or not you (on the receiving end of the remark) think that it applies to you and in what sense you think it might.

Off-topic slightly, but policemen are technically, for legal purposes, deemed 'self-employed' - yes, yes, I know...despite the uniform, pay cheque etc etc. I don't know the exact reasoning why, just remember hearing the point in a law lecture.

KurriKurri is spot on - whether or not a word or term if offensive is determined by if someone is offended by it - regardless of whether or not you meant to offend them.
I have a FB 'friend' who is also a copper and I have hidden their updates as I am constantly offended and not amused by them. I have another FB friend who is also an ex-copper who is amusing and delighful. My chums do not offer me statistically robust numbers for analysis!

Sheep don't have an ethnic origin though do they? Or it should be 'ba ba sheep of an inderminate ethnic origin'.

I didn't know about all that other stuff but it strikes me - why do they sing it at all then? Why not just not sing it and avoid the issue altogether?