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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

That angry Dad shouts at me in church?

136 replies

verysomething · 09/01/2011 19:46

I'm a regular, he was a drop-in for a christening... and his 2 DS's (5 and 3) were making an almighty noise behind me, kicking my pew and hitting me in the head with their toys. It's a big church (could seat 500) and there were no more than 70 people there, so there's lots of room to move and take fractious DC's up the back.

Normally I would never have said anything, it's so hard for DC's to sit still we all understand that, and I wish I hadn't now. But the volume level got so high, I mean REALLY loud, and Dad wouldn't shush them at all, and everyone was kind of distracted by it. I turned around and said in what I thought was my most gently and smiley and (so I thought) anglican voice "hey, shh shh, little ones - this is a church!"

Dad tore strips off me, said "don't you dare tell off my children! Nobody but me has the right to do that! You talk to me, not my children!"

I didn't realise what I said was so bad. My point is that I thought I had said something in a gentle, caring, non-judgmental way... but obviously he saw it as a criticism of his parenting Sad. I was in tears and am still really upset.

Mea culpa, am ready to be flamed for being so out of touch with how we act in public now Sad

OP posts:
JamieLeeCurtis · 09/01/2011 21:51

TheFarSide - I agree this is a concern. IMO, some people who complain about others talking to their children can struggle a bit when the child starts school ..... and become a bit of a pain in the arse to teachers because they undermine the school

Original poster
verysomething · 09/01/2011 21:53

Thank you lovely MNers, you've really made me feel better. I was really hurt by the Angry Dad's reaction today, and you've made me feel much better.

And JamieLeeCurtis - I am a Christian, and I say fuck. Rather a lot. And if you have to bring SN into the argument to try and win it, then you lose. Sorry, but 95% of children do NOT have SN, so it is not the debate-killer you think it is.

And every now and then I say cunt Grin, but I'm very very sorry afterwards.

Bless.

OP posts:
allnightlong · 09/01/2011 21:54

TheFarSide I do wonder about that and the fact that many schools offer rewards for basic good manners and normal good behaviour like keeping work space tidy.
I wonder how they will manage in the real world, it's going to come as a shock.

JamieLeeCurtis · 09/01/2011 21:54

very - Shock.

I did not mean to imply that SN are implicated in many of these situations. I agree with you

Joolyjoolyjoo · 09/01/2011 21:57

verysomething- you should become a catholic- then you could simply confess to your swearing and be absolved Wink Glad you feel better. Give it a few years and AngryDad will be driven demented by his blessed children.

lottiejenkins · 09/01/2011 21:58

My ds has special needs and everyone is great with him in our church. He has been used as an example of how SN can be promoted in our local churches. He is profoundly deaf and has aspergers. When he comes to church with me, the readings are relayed to me beforehand so we can mark them in the bible and the prayers are printed so he can follow them. He has signed the Lords Prayer in church and he is a Junior Sidesman!!!

Original poster
verysomething · 09/01/2011 22:02

Oh Lawdy, we're all in violent agreement at this point... Thank you JLC and others...

I just want to know WHY I can't say anything to children in my community? They're adorable little munchkins and I love them as my own.. but I'm asking those who say it's more appropriate to talk to the parent rather than the child to tell me WHY?

OP posts:
theevildead2 · 09/01/2011 22:04

Even if the child had SN it would not make it OK for the parent to quietly ignore you being hit in the head! He could have apologised and let you know the score so you have the opertunity to move.

KangarooCaught · 09/01/2011 22:05

He needed a good smiting.

Where's a heavenly thunderbolt when you need one?

reallytired · 09/01/2011 22:10

I expect that I should be on the naughty bench with this man. My 21 month old toddler was trouble on legs at church today. She was hell bent on escaping from the pew, she tried to come up for a second blessing, except shouting out AMEN and singing away in a manger during the prayers. My dd wanted to go up to the high altar during the blessing of the bread and wine. A couple of months back she shouted out that she had done a poo during the peace.

The priest has told me not worry. I have be specifically told not to take her out, unless she is screaming her head off.
Apparently Jesus loves active toddlers and said "let the children come on to me."

I hate when parents shussh their children. It is often more distracting than the bit of noise that small children make.

If I saw a guest who was struggling with his children I think about what I can do to practically help him. I wouldn't tell off his children. For example our church has a lovely toy cupboard with books. Distraction is every bit as effective as telling a child off.

We are all sinners. It is a relief for me that you do not have to be perfect to be saved.

Original poster
verysomething · 09/01/2011 22:10

I think we're done here.

OP posts:
RevoltingPeasant · 09/01/2011 22:11

OP sorry if I missed but out of nosiness curiosity what did you say back to AngryDad? And did the rest of the congregation look shocked on your behalf?

puffling · 09/01/2011 22:13

My take on dealing with other people's naughty children is that if parents aren't there, you tell the children off and if parent/s are there you tell the parent what's annoying you.
In this case I expect the dad would have taken offence whoever you'd spoken to.

eaglewings · 09/01/2011 22:13

really tired - I LOVE your Vicar, there are lots of good ones about now thankfully.

Sleep well

RevoltingPeasant · 09/01/2011 22:15

Sorry very, never mind and good night :)

Original poster
verysomething · 09/01/2011 22:41

RevoltingPeasant - I didn't say anything back to angry dad. We were all just terrifically embarrassed at that point and everyone just looked at the pew in front of them (which is what we were prob. meant to be doing at that point in the service)

I just wondered what I could have done better.

No-one in my church would ever dream of confronting a parent about their children's behaviour... that would seem so judgemental... that's why it seemed ok to just smile and say "hey little man, shh shh, what's all this fuss about? You're in church!" etc. in kind tones, to someone else's DC.

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 10/01/2011 17:20

I think if a child has actually hit you with his/her toy then you have a right to speak directly to the child.

TheRunawayWife · 10/01/2011 17:26

OP you did nothing wrong, the man was rude, stupid and a rubbish parent

falsemessageoflethargy · 10/01/2011 17:30

reallytiredI dont think jesus told the children to 'come on to me' did he? Not in the King James version anyway Grin

LilyBolero · 10/01/2011 17:31

Some people have the idea that their children have a god-given right to behave exactly as they like, and that if you have a problem with it, it is YOUR problem.

Such people are very selfish. You were absolutely right.

Ormirian · 10/01/2011 17:32

I'd prefer it if you had spoken to my children directly. They would have responded to you better as well I expect. I think you sounded very reasonable and you spoke to them kindly. Bloke is twat.

Ormirian · 10/01/2011 17:34

ROFL at 'come on to me' Grin

Will have many a quiet snigger over that this evening.

TheProvincialLady · 10/01/2011 17:34

I have a slightly different take on this. I have been in church (am a regular) loads of times when there have been visitors with noisy children. I generally go and find them some books, toys or some colouring to do. You can't assume that new children (or their parents) know what is expected behaviour in church and you only get one chance to show them that a church is a welcoming place for them. I think helping out a parent who is in a difficult situation (ie embarrassed, bored etc) is a better approach than jus telling the children to be quiet, however nicely.

Having said that, this father was clearly a dick. He had no right to shout at you.

katiestar · 10/01/2011 18:26

YABU and un-Christian
'Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.'

But perhaps you think you know better than Jesus?

Katisha · 10/01/2011 18:36

Katiestar don't be silly.

No-one is denying that children should come to church. The issue here is why their parent didn't see fit to stop them shouting the place down, in a christening, which is an important and meaningful event for the people concerned. And yet this father thought it was acceptable for his children to dominate the proceedings.

It's immaterial whether it's in church or not - it would be the same at the cinema or other public place as I said earlier.

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