Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

That angry Dad shouts at me in church?

136 replies

verysomething · 09/01/2011 19:46

I'm a regular, he was a drop-in for a christening... and his 2 DS's (5 and 3) were making an almighty noise behind me, kicking my pew and hitting me in the head with their toys. It's a big church (could seat 500) and there were no more than 70 people there, so there's lots of room to move and take fractious DC's up the back.

Normally I would never have said anything, it's so hard for DC's to sit still we all understand that, and I wish I hadn't now. But the volume level got so high, I mean REALLY loud, and Dad wouldn't shush them at all, and everyone was kind of distracted by it. I turned around and said in what I thought was my most gently and smiley and (so I thought) anglican voice "hey, shh shh, little ones - this is a church!"

Dad tore strips off me, said "don't you dare tell off my children! Nobody but me has the right to do that! You talk to me, not my children!"

I didn't realise what I said was so bad. My point is that I thought I had said something in a gentle, caring, non-judgmental way... but obviously he saw it as a criticism of his parenting Sad. I was in tears and am still really upset.

Mea culpa, am ready to be flamed for being so out of touch with how we act in public now Sad

OP posts:
siouxsienusude · 09/01/2011 20:58

lighten up allnightlong!
A little of it was meant to be 'tounge in cheek'! OK?!

eaglewings · 09/01/2011 20:58

This all reminds me of a horrible Easter day service I had to attend at a Church I only went to every now and then.

I was 7 months pregnant, had my 3 year old ds with me he has ASD. I had spent the night on a camp bed and frequently had cleared up the bathroom after my dh was sick in the bath while sitting on the loo..... Not the best night of my life!

Another child was playing with my ds, unfortunately they were at different ends of the aisle. My son was not quiet, but if I stopped he he made more noise.

The lady in front turned round and asked us to be quiet and be better behaved.

My reaction was to leave the church and wait in the grave yard till my relation could join me (the Vicar)

I bet that lady thought she was doing the right thing, but she knew nothing about where I was. i felt so unwelcome and unloved, even worse, I felt that my son was so unwelcome and unloved.

The Church warden did come out to find me but I was too upset.

IMO you should ask if you can help if you really feel you have to say something, or ask yourself - What Would Jesus Do?

thank you goingmad for making me feel less mad!

JamieLeeCurtis · 09/01/2011 20:59

Or maybe you thought "here's a man who is patently not doing what is needed to sort this situation. I doubt whether talking to him will have any effect, so maybe I'll try a direct approach on the children" or even "here's a ma who seems to be a bit of a selfish arse. If I talk to him directly I may get an earful"

abdnhiker · 09/01/2011 21:06

eaglewings I'm sorry you felt your son was unloved and unwelcome. It sounds like a horrible experience with everything you'd been through and I'm glad you can see that the woman would not have known what you'd been through. Hopefully she'd have been helpful had she known. Seriously - the best thing about a church community is that on a day like that if the church is working properly someone would volunteer to take your DS out for a play and give you an hour of peace. I don't think that experience is equal to the OP being shouted at though - she ended up in tears.

We have a creche facility in our church that children can be taken to during the sermon and it makes for a much better experience for everyone. I'm very aware that my kids can make noise at some points during the service but during the sermon it's very important that I take them away so that others can concentrate (especially when I know the minister's worked for 20 hours on it and it's important to respect him/her and make sure we are not distracting others from what is being said). During a hymn though I don't worry so much.

mollymawk · 09/01/2011 21:07

Well, I think you were perfectly reasonable and he was very rude. I wouldn't mind if I was in chuch (I'm not a regular!) with my DCs and having difficulty getting them all to be quiet at the same time and someone else nicely aksed them to be quiet. They'd a lot more notice then probably! I might be embarrassed but that's no excuse for being rude.

Viz, recently I was at the theatre with DS who, it turned out, had been swinging his leg and kicking the seat in front. I hadn't noticed. The woman in the seat turned round and asked him nicely to stop kicking her chair please. Fair enough. No need for her to tell me. Escalates things needlessly if you get the parents involved, IMO.

scarletbegonia · 09/01/2011 21:10

abdnhiker yes, if I'm right next to my children I would expect any comments about their behaviour (good or bad) to be addressed to me rather than to them.

Why should a stranger think they have the right to assume that its their business to butt in?

I don't think I used the word yell but obviously the intention of the OP was to tell off the children, she wasn't just making conversation with them.

I think there are 2 issues here - the father shouldn't have shouted at her but equally I don't think she should have spoken directly to the children.

Original poster
verysomething · 09/01/2011 21:18

abdnhiker - that's what our church is like Smile, there's a creche that the DC's love, and they don't have to sit through hours of boring sermons and things (oh, come on... we all thought they were boring when they were little).

Regarding my OP ...it wasn't the DC's, it was the dad, shouting at me for daring to speak to his DCs. WHY is it wrong to speak to a 'stranger's' DC's? The reason I was so upset was that I didn't think I'd done anything wrong, but he made me feel like I was just the most horrible person in the world Sad

I understand lots of MNers saying 'nobody may criticise my DCs except me'... but WHY?

OP posts:
Nanny0gg · 09/01/2011 21:20

If a 5-year old hit me on the back of my head with a toy, it would definitely be the child I told to pack it in!
Then I would turn to the parent and ask them if they could stop their child doing that!

Katisha · 09/01/2011 21:24

The same would have happened to you if you'd tried to get his children to pipe down in the cinema, or theatre, or anywhere where people are trying to concentrate on something else.

I think the fact it was in church just adds extra layers of guilt and hand-wringing (speak as a church goer...)

Agree with Charliesmommy earlier upthread : "We live in a society full of people who have no idea how to behave decently and with manners or consideration for others."

lottiejenkins · 09/01/2011 21:28

Jamie Lee Curtis........ Love the idea of the JG voice!!! I use it every day in the playground with the children!! our local church has a great policy re children. They dont worry about the noise. The children have as much right to be there as the children!!

Katisha · 09/01/2011 21:29

Yes of course they do lottie, but you would hope that someone who was a guest at a christening might realise that his DCs were rather ruining it for everyone.

lottiejenkins · 09/01/2011 21:31

Of course!! I wasnt meaning to ignore that sorry!!

Original poster
verysomething · 09/01/2011 21:34

lottiejenkins - "The children have as much right to be there as the children!!"

WTF?

Are you on the NZ Sauvignon Blanc too Wink

Not blaming you sister, it's helping me through a difficult day.

Still want someone to tell my WHY I can't talk to anyone else's DC's. Mine don't live in a vacuum.

OP posts:
susiedaisy · 09/01/2011 21:37

if he wasnt a regular at church, then he may of been out of his and the kids comfort zone, and you touched a raw nerve IMO, no you did nothing wrong at all,

JamieLeeCurtis · 09/01/2011 21:37

very - Joyce would NOT say wtf. Cal yourself a christian !!!!!

regarding your question - I think the majority think it's OK. I think where people have concerns it's about how you do it (for instance, excessive firmness may upset younger DCs). Or maybe they have children with SN who require a special approach to discipline?

lottiejenkins · 09/01/2011 21:39

sorry its wine o clock here. I meant "as much right as the grownups!" I was also trying to field umpteen texts from my son at the same time!!

JamieLeeCurtis · 09/01/2011 21:40

... but how you did it was fine.

The only time I've been upset by another parent telling mine off was when my the-2 year old accidentally threw sand in her son's face (yes, should not throw sand) and without me having a chance to say anything, she shouted at him and was really horrible when I apologised and gave her some water to wash out her son's eye.

lottiejenkins · 09/01/2011 21:42
eaglewings · 09/01/2011 21:42

just had a thought, maybe he had given up alcohol or fags for January and was at the Church because he had made to be and his kids have learning difficulties and he had a bad time at church as a kid...

Its the talk of some of you drinking wine while some of us are on the wagon :(

JamieLeeCurtis · 09/01/2011 21:45

Marvellous lottie! I went to see Maureen Lipman in her show about JG, Re:Joyce. So brilliant. A real fore-runner to Victoria Wood

allnightlong · 09/01/2011 21:45

Very Please don't feel Sad I was only trying to explain why people react this way when adults address the child instead of them.
You were in the right to be annoyed and were very polite about it!

Did no one say anything to this dad when he shouted at you?
I'm sure the rest of the congregation could clearly see that he was in the wrong.

goingmadinthecountry · 09/01/2011 21:47

Very, because it often comes across as plyatronising. Particularly if he's not used to being in a church. He certainly won't turn up again. I'm not in any way condoning the poor behavious, but after 47 years of being a clergy daughter I have a number of insights into how people view the attitude of others in church (rightly or wrongly). I'm afraid your attitude would bring out the worst in me (although my children are perfect natch) and I'd probably have stuck my tongue out at anyone who spoke to my kids condescendingly despite being embarrassed. If you'd spoken to me I would have apologised.

I have no objection to people speaking to my kids, but when they go over my head with discipline and are patronising, it brings out my inner Bart Simpson. In less confident times, it has left me blubbering. It's all about appropriate behaviour and imo, you didn't respond in the best possible way today. Of course, he was obviously in the wrong for not making sure his children behaved.

allnightlong · 09/01/2011 21:48

Just to add I personally would have said STFU (well I wouldn't have swore but you get the idea) so your a far better person than me at least you only thought it!

TheFarSide · 09/01/2011 21:48

When I was a child, on the rare occasions when I got told off by another adult I remember feeling massively embarrassed and ashamed. I've therefore always thought it's a good way for kids to learn responsible behaviour because they then realise the effect their actions have on other people.

If no-one other than their parents are allowed to tell them off, might they have a problem accepting comments on their behaviour from other people later on in life (genuinely wondering)?

goingmadinthecountry · 09/01/2011 21:50

Not sure what plyatronising means. Obviously meant patronising!