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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To be sad and quite horrified that this couple aborted their babies...

126 replies

MsKLo · 08/01/2011 19:32

Couple with three sons abort twin boys conceived with IVF - and they will try again for a girl as their first daughter died

I read this and was just

I do really really feel sad for them too, but also horrified that they aborted their boys because they were not girls

So sad

OP posts:

WhereTheWildThingsWere · 09/01/2011 13:03

Surely if you are pro-choice then you believe it is a womans right to choose whether or not she wishes to continue with a pregnancy?

She would have been happy to continue should it have been a girl/s, so it isn't the pregnancy that it is issue but the sex of the babies, not the same thing imo.

They need help, it's such a callous thing to do.

WhereTheWildThingsWere · 09/01/2011 13:05

Christ, chocolatebutton that's a bit harsh.

chocolatebuttontheif · 09/01/2011 13:05

"desperate to try to replace the little girl we lost"

K12Mom · 09/01/2011 13:07

... in fact, this child will not even be genetically related to me because we are using donor eggs.

chocolatebuttontheif · 09/01/2011 13:08

I didnt mean to offend it's just how you worded it, and you didnt mention about the donor eggs

TandB · 09/01/2011 13:09

I agree with pink4ever. Being pro-choice does not mean that you lose the right to think that a particular choice is morally abhorrent. It doesn't even mean that you lose the right to say it. Being pro-choice means that you would argue against anyone suggests that this couple could not have an abortion. You can still believe that they should not have done so. You can support their right to choice while still condemning the choice they made.

This couple did not become pregnant by accident. Their circumstances did not change after conception. They went into this situation, presumably in full knowledge that there was a 50% chance the resulting child (or potential child depending on your view) would be discarded in favour of another attempt. The most charitable interpretation would be that they did not realise that they would feel so strongly until they found out that they were having a boy.

I think that this type of decision is ever considered acceptable is fairly indicative of what a throw-away culture we have become, These embryos were aborted not because of anything that would impact upon their quality of life, nor because of anything that would make the family life difficult, but simply because they were not what the parents wanted.

I have enormous sympathy for the parents. I can't imagine what it woud be like to lose a child. But you can't replace a child. If they had decided to have another child because their family felt incomplete, or because the other children were now lonely, or because they simply wanted to experience being the parents of a new child once again, I would have more sympathy, although I would still be concerned about the possibility of the new child not living up to expectations. It is a big responsibility for that child to heal the family. But they are trying to recreate a particular facet of their lost child's identity - albeit a big one in gender. What if they wanted to recreate an attractive child, or an outgoing child, or a funny child?

I support their right to make the decision but I loathe the fact that this was what they chose. I also do not know what possessed them to go to the papers. Some things should be private.

Nancy66 · 09/01/2011 13:10

Statistically you are far more likely to have a boy with IVF, so if they desperately don't want a son they should cease treatment.

K12Mom · 09/01/2011 13:19

That's true, Nancy. For that reason, I do not understand why the hell they didn't travel overseas for Gender Selection, if it is that important to them.

I don't know where they live, but Sydney IVF has an arrangement with a clinic in Thailand that does Gender Selection for 'family balancing' purposes. I know a few people from Australia who have been there.

BuzzLightBeer · 09/01/2011 13:22

how does that make it not her pregnancy WhereThe?

kingfu if that comment was directed to me, nobody said you have to like or approve of it, just that you don't have the right to take that decision away.

and I think its pretty insulting to relate this to society as a whole, because we are "throw-away". This is not a normal thing, thats why its in the papers. It says nothing about the rest of us.

I agree with the rest of your post though.

Newgolddream · 09/01/2011 13:35

"'family balancing'"?
I find this term quite disturbing actually - does that mean that families with children of the same sex are not balanced? Will I never be the Mum of a balanced family because I have 3 boys?

I strongly disagree with any form of gender selection apart from in families where there are genetic conditions that are linked to the sex genes.

K12Mom · 09/01/2011 13:43

Newgolddream, you are being ridiculous. Obviously 'balanced' refers to numbers.

And why exactly do you disagree with gender selection for 'family balancing' purposes?

chocolatebuttontheif · 09/01/2011 13:53

Newgolddrean i completely agree with you.

Surely all children are a blessing? I have a DS and we're currently ttc our 2nd. Given than DS has muscular dystrophy I'd love a DD but I don't really care as long as I have a healthy baby.

Others have mentioned that gender selection should only be allowed where there are genetic conditions present. I don't know about all conditions but for many PGD screens for embryos without the faulty gene, there is no question of sex coming into it.

Haribojoe · 09/01/2011 13:54

I find this story disgusting.

I think the couple should be ashamed of themselves.

Apart from anything else how do they think their sons will feel when they are older and become aware of these stories.

I have 3 sons and would love another baby, not because I want a girl but because I want another child.

Being a parent is about unconditional love, I don't think gender should come into it.

K12Mom · 09/01/2011 13:54

Perhaps you would feel differently if you were a bereaved parent, chocolatebuttontheif.

chocolatebuttontheif · 09/01/2011 13:54

Sorry, I suppose that should have been PGD in the UK

K12Mom · 09/01/2011 13:57

So, you are OK with parents travelling abroad for PGD then?

chocolatebuttontheif · 09/01/2011 14:01

No I didn't say that at all. Just getting across that AFAIK for most genetic conditions PGD in the UK still doesn't allow gender selection, just the selection of embros that don't carry the genetic fault.

katiestar · 09/01/2011 14:03

If you read the report carefully, it doesn't actually Say what the reason for aborting the boys was.In true DM style by juxtaposing it with them being desperate for sex selection to get a girl, it implies they were aborted because they were boys, but that might be way off the mark.
In any case I don't think until you walk a mile in that couple's shoes that you can possibly judge.

Newgolddream · 09/01/2011 14:03

K12Mom - I am deeply sorry for your loss, and I would never tell anyone that they couldnt have a child of a certain sex - - if they are looking to "replace" a child that had died - I dont understand it, but thats your choice.

However I dont think Im being ridicolous at all - people quote a "balanced family" all the time - and they generally mean at least 1 child of each sex - as if thats the holy grail in families.

What do you mean that "family balancing" refers to numbers? Are you saying its not about choosing the sex of your child then?

Do you mean numbers of children - if so where does sex selection come into this?

And I disagree with sex selection (unless as I said there are genetic disorders in the family) because it smacks of "designer babies" - parents should be thankful for a healthy baby of either sex.

oneortwo · 09/01/2011 14:06

if they do have a girl later, and she finds out that her brother was aborted just because he wasn't her IYKWIM - how might that make her feel?

I openly admit that I do have a gender preference, and I think more people do than admit to it. However I think acting out this preference in this way is another thing all together to them just wanting / hoping for a girl

K12Mom · 09/01/2011 14:23

The term 'Family Balancing' refers to a couple using Gender Selection to have a child of the underrepresented gender in their family.

In the US, they can only offer Gender Selection for family balancing when you have at least one child of the opposite gender. Most RE's require you to have at least two.

K12Mom · 09/01/2011 14:26

Newgolddream, I explained 'Family Balancing' for the benefit of a previous poster who suggested the term meant her family was 'unbalanced'.

And as for your 'designer babies' comment... oh dear, you really have been reading the Daily Mail too much!

theevildead2 · 09/01/2011 14:36

I am pro choice but this is disgusting. If they are so devasted by the loss of one child they would find it sick making to kill two more surely??? They clearly just want a girl.

I do think they were right to be allowed to abort though just because they clearly would not have loved the children had they been forced to keep them.

ShowOfHands · 09/01/2011 14:43

I just can't comment upon this article because while I know the facts, I don't know the people.

Of course, factually and rationally it is a baffling and deeply upsetting choice.

But I can never second guess the psychological process or fragility of a woman who chooses to go through a termination. It seems simple in the black and white print of the Daily Mail, but I would wager that there are few women who could terminate a pregnancy in the easy and carefree way that the article assumes. I wouldn't dream of supposing that human emotions made this choice as simple for them as it rationally might seem.

The argument about what they 'deserve' in terms of consequences is irrelevant to them I'd imagine history has taught them what they 'deserve' can't make sense as what they got is the unimaginable, the absolute worst thing that happens to parents. I don't think I see the world of ttc and parenting in the same way as a bereaved parent. I wouldn't dare to guess how it seems to them.

Newgolddream · 09/01/2011 16:07

K12Mom - I dont read the daily mail thanks. "Designer babies"....is just a term...
to me is nothing to do with the DM but everything to do with parents choosing the sex of their child - simply because the science is there - is that saying 1 sex is valued more than another for example? What next - choosing eye clour, hair colour, and god forbid intelligence - just because you can? No I dont agree with it. Scarey implications.

When I was pregnant with my 3rd boy I had people saying to me "Well you will we wanting a girl then".... er no, I wanted a healthy baby. And I even had one idiot say to me, on finding out my unborn child was a boy "Oh thats a shame"!

Thanks for explaining the Family Balancing thing - but thats not what I have heard the term generally used in reference to here. And I dont see why a gender should be "under represented" - whats wrong with accepting what you have? Why is this "deal" then to have equal numbers of the same children, I just dont get it.

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