Private Education and State Education

[ScienceDad]

I wanted to keep it seperate from my other post in here, since people kept wanting to derail the original post with it.

Why are people so up in arms over this? I mentioned that my DD was privately educated and it seemed that that was the only thing people could see in the post and their minds had already clouded with prejudice.

The education level in this country is, if you're able to ignore the Daily Mails Doomsaying, world class, regardless of if it's independant or state.

I was given a state education, and send my daughter to a private school. I think both are really good, and you shoulndt get hung up on jealousy / superiority issues and just be thankful that we don't have the American or similar system.

ooh didn't see this thread running alongside the other..

i agree very much with lamorna but i see cleofarta's point

i personally/ politically will always support the need for imroving the whole system and feel sad that in the uk state provision is often an ideological choice i wouldn't foist upon my dc

when i lived in france the local state schools were excellent and the only private schools locally old fashioned convent style

our nearest primary school next to my dd's former nursery backs on to a huge council estate and i'm afraid i was often shocked by the behaviour/ appearance (i know it's wrong) of parents i saw whilst walking my dd to and from nursery. it was like a procession from village of the damned. i know there are many good people struggling to give their dc the best in hard conditions but my dc's education/ childhood is not a social experiment and i'm happy to pay to shield them from environments i'd be unhappy in.

with private education you're paying first and foremost for small classes, more motivated teachers and the aesthetic pleasure of a beautiful establishment. the same social problems exist of course, their will be dv, drug and alcohol problems, financial hardship etc in rich families too..but hopefully in not so dense a concentration as to impact upon my dc's daily life

Violethill, the school they go to has got an outstanding Ofsted report and the teachers are great. But there are 30 children in both my boys' forms. They simply don't get enough individual attention IMO, especially my older boy who is very bright. And I feel very upset about the lack of music tuition.

oh cleofarta i didn't read your next post before posting mine i'm sorry i wish i hadn't said anything now

My ds's state comp had a fantastic music department

It backed on to a council estate though

People weren't "up in arms" about the state vs. public school thing in your other thread, they were annoyed at your snidey attitude. As I basically agreed with what you were trying to get across, I didn't comment on it, but now that you have started another argument thread, I really feel that you need to understand a few things about posting on Mumsnet.

Give relevant details only.
Try not to inflate your or your children's abilities.
If you are going to start contentious threads, especially if they are designed to irritate people (like this one) expect people to get pissed off with you.
When a thread doesn't go the way you want it to, don't start another, similar thread to try and change things.
The majority of MN posters are intelligent and very opinionated. They doesn't mean they fall into any particular social class, but does mean that they will be cross and offended if you make wild assumptions about them.
If you claim to be intelligent, try to ensure that your spelling of the following word is correct. However, many MNers are more forgiving of poor spelling.

HTH. :)

I love the way sciencedad asks us all not to get hung up on jealousy/superiority issues over private education!

What a...

!

The funniest thing is he is probably genuinely surprised tha people think he is a smug git

countless - I totally agree that you are paying for smaller classes, and sometimes, for an aesthetically pleasing environment, but don't fall into the trap of thinking you're paying for more motivated teachers.

It just ain't necessarily true!

There are great teachers (and some poor ones) in both sectors. In fact if anything, I would say your really ambitious, go-getting teachers are far more likely to be chasing jobs in the state sector when they qualify, as its easier to move from state to private later than vice versa.

Cleofartra - please don't think I am being horrible here I truely don't mean to be but I don't see how you can call it an 'unfair' disadvantage - we've worked our fingers to the bone to ensure our DS did not have to go to a school that was wholly unsuitable - how is that an unfair disadvantage? We've worked very, very hard and made choices to give our child a slight advantage.

My DH and I both left school with very little in the way of qualifications but through sheer hard work and determination have been able to claw our way up the career ladder - we sacrifice other things to be able to afford school fees, our car for example is three years old and it is unlikely that we will be able to replace it this year and it's not a 'flash' car!

Loopy

I know we clashed on another thread once but bygones and all that - jus wanted to say, well said

Now I had bette go read some books to learn about life according to sciencedad...

Aye, I get the music thing. Totally. The thing is that neither I nor DH nor DD are particularly musical while DS is extremely musical (it's his life, really) and it gives me the shivers thinking that this is something we would have missed.

So what I'd suggest is that you take him for music lessons privately and if at all possible, once your DS can read music, take him to a local choir or maybe even a try out for a local cathedral choir. The choral thing is absolutely great for children, but they do need to learn an instrument alongside.

HTH

Haha at a 3 yr old car being old. It isn't unfair for you to have money Betty, but some would argue that you child will have advantages over others through no achievement of his own. And that many work sodding hard and will never afford private education. (Have no axe to grind, I was privately educated and have done well out of it, but do have sensitivity to why this is a touchy subject and hope you will too.)

Bybetty I agree, it is not fair to say unfair advantage when so many people scrimp to send their kids to private school

It is just a shame state schools are suffering and it worries me when the time comes to send my children

Hmmm ninky, i think it is a bit harsh to state 'through no achievement of his own'

Cleofartra- with music, it's the private lessons which are really important. (And you'd be paying these lessons anyway, on top of school fees if you were using a private school, so makes no difference financially). Depending on the instrument, you can find local choirs/ orchestras - obviously this is important unless its a truly solo instrument. And if you're talking seriously musical as in wanting to make a profession out of it, then a specialist music school would be the way to go anyway (not just any private school) as they are the ones most likely to lead on to the top music colleges. If your child has those aspirations and that talent, they should get in to a specialist school.

If you're just talking about being very musical (as opposed to intending to become a professional musician) then what I describe above should suit - ie the weekend orchestras, private lessons etc

NinkyNonker - fair enough about the car thing, it's just funny when the sixth formers at school have better cars than we do....
I am sensitive abnout it - I grew up dirt poor with literally nothing BUT have done everything in my power to work my way up and provide a better life for DS. I am proud of what I've achieved and am a bit sensitive to people thinking it's unfair ( it's been 20 years of blommin hard slog, working 12-15 hour days and second jobs in the early days to help support other family members -this was before DH and DS)

Why the dig at American schools? I happen to be a product of that system and I had a very well rounded education that served me well and enabled me to attend university. I used said education to find a job, begin a career and support myself. I only stepped off the career ladder to be a sahm. I'm fortunate that my DH, who was well educated in a state school in the UK, earns enough to support us in our current lifestyle while I'm at home.

I think YABU because you make throwaway statements without thinking how they sound or how others will receive them. Tactless is the word that springs to mind

Btbetty

You have every right to be proud of what you have achieved

If I could afford it I would have no hesitatiOn in sending my kids to a private school if it was the better option/choice

I just wish the state schools near me were better!

MsKlo - it is such a shame that the state schools in certain areas are so poor. I think that's the thing that makes this such an emotional subject for everyone -the fact that it's basically a postcode lottery as to whether or not there is a good choice of state schools for our DC's.

There should be more consistency!

One thing I will say is that the problems with the school we chose not to send our Son to were not of the schools making -in fact the teachers and facilities were excellent, the problems arose from the local authorities actions in insisting on housing what they deemed as 'problem tenants' in a large concentrated area -this resulted in this particular school having a massively high level of non-english speaking children and children from drug and alcohol dependant families in their catchment area.

Because of this a school which had a very good repution has suffered massively through no fault of their own. I dont know what the answers are but it isn't fair that choice for parents isn;t consistent.

would also say regarding exceptionally bright and musically talented children, there are all manner of scholarships and bursaries available in independant schools, very worth investigating

I think, referring to the other post, if it was a state school in question, he wouldn't have had the chance to complain, but because he pays his dd's teachers' wages-directly, apparently, then he is in his right .

He's a bit smug. I was privately educated but I'm fully intended on home schooling. So we have that in common, OP, educating our children differently from ourselves!

Note I was careful to not link the previous OP and this one together. See how I did that?!

and violethill- lovely name, i'm sure there are no guarantees about staff. no guarantees about educational outcomes either
my ds has emerged from public schooling with poor results, due to lack of work ethic. in fact all he has to show for it is impeccable manners and a smoking habit

If you can afford private education, and that is the best option for your individual child, then I see no problem with it. My elder DS's went to state primary school and then private secondary school, as the environment was better for them as individuals, for different reasons.

DS1 was very sporty, and the local state secondary school was not. DS2 is ASD, but does not qualify for the local state special school, and we wanted him to have the 1:1 attention that he would get at a small private school, with 500 pupils, and I really think that he would not have survived the huge state comphrehensive with 1600 pupils, which was the only other option.

DS3 however, went to private prep school from the age of 5, as he was being badly bullied at the state primary, and the school would not deal with it properly. He will now go to a state Academy school, as this specialises in the areas that he is interested in.

So, it's all about what is best for your individual DC.

BUT - seeming to boast about it is a big, big no-no.

You judge each schools and each child on what you want from them, I haven't done it but I can easily see a situation where you might have one DC at a private school and one at a state school, or DCs who go to both in their school career. It is only a choice, not a divide.