French teacher telling DD that she only doesn't believe in God because her Mother told her.

[ScienceDad]

Hello Mumsnetters, long time reader first time poster!

Am I being unreasonable in thinking that this teacher was way beyond the line in saying this? Here is some background, sorry in advance for the length, but I think it's quite interesting.

A while back, DD's cousin, who is 9, told her that she had to be good, or God, who watches them from the clouds, would punish her and send her to hell where she'd be hurt forever.

As you can imagine, this was very upsetting for a 4 year old girl, and when she asked us if there was a God in the clouds watching her, her mother and I, who are both intelligent athiests, told her not to worry about it, some people believe that there is but we don't, and worrying about it (as even religious folk should understand) is completely absurd for a 4 year old.

So fastforward a few weeks, and DD comes home from School (A very expensive, highly regarded private school, of which she is by far the top student in her class, as we were informed by her teacher at parents evening) Came home very upset after an after school French Lesson. While talking about Christmas DD was told that Christmas was about loving God, which, as you know how tactful a 4 year old can be, resulted in DD saying God wasn't real. Her French teacher in turn told her God was real, and she only doesn't believe in God because her Mother (My DW) said so.

I was fuming, to be honest, not only because it's the complete opposite of reality (not to make this a religeon debate, but surely the French teacher only took that stance because SHE had been told it as a child) but surely any mature adult would not correct a child on such a matter with no tact at all, especially when she is supposedly teaching in an expensive, non faith based school.

Sorry again for length, but AIBU?

The french teacher is right though. Your dd doesn't believe in God because you have told her there is no God. It's not a decision your 4 year old made all by herself.

The 'teacher' in this case probably isn't actually a teacher. Extra-curricular languages (Le Club Francais, La Jolie Ronde etc.) are usually 'taught' by inexperienced speakers of that language, ie. recent graduates, students, unqualified native speakers. This will mean that they have no idea of pedagogical methods nor classroom ethics. At an expensive independent school I would expect language tuition to be taught in school hours as part of the tuition you already pay for, taught by an experienced teacher.

When you speak to the school, query this.

Sorry, I forgot to add, if the above is the case, complaining to the school will make no difference, as she won't be employed by them.

'there's no point in speculating what her train of thought was without investigation. '

But isn't that what you have done?

You assume the teacher (paid for my you) is trying to indoctrinate her when she may well be an intelligent atheist who is trying to encourage your child (an intelligent top student and a expensive highly regarded private school) to think for herself?

I was terrified, yes.

Until then all I ever got at school was the God is Love variety of Catholicism. I hadn't been told about the devil, and hell and how you could end up there forever if you didn't have family prayers and go to Mass.

I knew family prayers was not going to happen, but thought I could improve our chances with the Mass thing.

Then again, I firmly believed in fairies until 8 or 9 and Santa until I was 10, so I suppose I was a very credulous child.

Then at 13 I announced my atheism to my entirely uninterested family. I finally realised as a young adult that I couldn't even commit myself to that and have been happily agnostic for years.

YANBU. Of course we all foist our opinions on our children as fact, but the concept of God should be taught in a very specific way and should certainly NEVER be taught as fact.

I wonder what she would have said had it been a Muslim or Jewish child who had made a comment about (for example) the story of Jesus being the messiah, being a big fat lie.

If she'd dared to foist her opinions onto that child she'd probably be facing the sack. As always, the children of atheists and agnostics are seen as fair game.

I imagine the number of people who have discovered God all by themselves in spite of having no religious upbringing is very, very small in comparison to the number of people who have been told that all about God from an early age, but having thought it all out for themselves have decided it's probably rubbish.

theevildead2 Please be constructive, I'm not even sure why you're following up on this, I'm fully aware that it's not nice to complain about people's spelling/grammar on mumsnet, I was pointing out that you were worrying too much about it up top in your first post...

FanjoForTheMincePies it's not really, other than 4 is a difficult age where children can be between drooling and surprisingly smart, everyone develops at different speeds so I was trying to get across that she was dependable language and understanding wise.

Domesticslattern, Yes I know a similar story of that happening, the parents were very oppressive in their beliefs and the children sort of rebelled into faith. Thankfully the parents were dickheads and the children ended up doing lots of charity work, so the world was made a better place :)

Sorry bubbleOseven, if I didnt make it clear, but I never told her there wasn't. I told her that Me and Mummy don't think there is and you shouldnt worry about it. I have no doubt over the years she'll see for herself how wonderful the world is, if she feels that its too big for her to comprehend, she can feel free to but it at the feet of a magic deity of her choice. The only person who issued an absolute her was the French Teacher.

FelatioNelson this was my Wifes biggest concern, what if instead of us, she'd disagreed with one of the few Muslim Children in the classes views and felt the need to tell them that theirs was the wrong god :p

YABU for wanting to 'throttle' a 9 year old child.

You sound terribly STRIDENT.

Because it's a discussion, are we only allowed to follow up if we agree?? Post in chat if you don't want disagreement.

And I never said a word about your spelling or grammar!? I said you had an attitude and quoted items I thought sounded arsey.. I even left all the stuff about your 4 year old being top of her class.. and how expensive the school was.. Because I was trying to be polite.

Isn't your kid 4? I wouldn't believe a word of it to be honest.

It's just as likely that the teacher said "you believe that because your mummy told you and i believe differently".

Yes, why should it be somehow worse for chilcren being raised in superstitious households to be told at school that actually there aren't any sky fairies, than for a child to be told that oh yes there is one and it will gett you if you're not careful.
Teachers should always push the 'well different people believe different things and let's be polite about it' line for young DC and nothing else, whatever their own views.

Mrrylegs I'm afraid I wasn't being too literal when I said that :P

Evildead2, you're forgiven, don't worry about it.

I am an atheist, and my children know this. They ask, I say "Some people believe, you can believe what you like, it's not really important."

In spite of this (and in spite of a cherished belief in unicorns, fairies, over-the-rainbow and Santa) DD aged 7 says she does not want to believe in Jesus, because I don't. It's that clear. Kids do imitate their parents, even without coercion. At this age, I expect in her teens she'll join the Brethren or something.

Teacher shouldn't be mentioning it though, other than "some people believe" etc.

LaurieFairyonthetreeEatsCake Sadly for us at most times she loves repeating thigns word for word..especially to her Grandmother about things Mummy and Daddy have said to each other when they made the mistake of thinking that talking with just DD in the room equalled any sort of privacy :p

FrostyTheCrunchyFrog I find that it tends to be Athiests who say it's alright for people to beleive what they want, whereas those of faiths say its not alright to not belive in God. What a world...

One day I'll learn how to spell believe.

I'm just saying before you get all over-excited you need to consider that your little girl is very young and is unlikely to be able to parrot-fashion the tone or underlying meaning behind what's being said.

This extra-curricular teacher may also, as has been pointed out have English as her second language - again the tone of what's being said can be misconstrued.

LaurieFairyonthetreeEatsCake Don't worry I'm being very careful to take thigns with a pinch of salt, it's one of the reasons I'm holding out for now. It just sits wrong that she was told off (of this I can be sure) and it will lead to her not liking French Class as much overall.

OP YANBU to not wish your dd's teacher to accept that you are not of Christian faith.

But I would take some time talking to your dd about how to discuss these matters. You wish to be respected for your views on religion and religious people wishes to be respected for their views. Whilst I appriciate that she is young still and often kids will make comments you can start teaching her to be respectful towards other peoples belief that is extending others the same curtesey that you wish to have extended to you. (we are never to young to learn about diplomacy)

I would have a word with the teacher and the school and leave it at that unless something happens again.

I think I'll jump in here and say...regardless of French/Biology/Economics or any other class you have your child enrolled in, if the topic of Christmas was brought up, which is indeed a celebration of the birth of the Son of GOD, then you can't really blame the teacher for mentioning God. I presume your beliefs prevent you from celebrating Christmas?

I was privately educated from the age of 3. Thankfully my parents didn't possess the horrific attitude you seem to have. You've made it clear that you pay extortionate sums for your child to be educated, thankfully, public schooling isn't compulsory, so move her if you despise it so much.

I don't think there is a problem in a teacher discussing Christmas and bringing God into it, they go hand in hand. But as some of the other posters have said, let's not base the future of the world on what a 4 year old may have muttered in the back of your 4X4 on the way home.

To say Christmas is a celebration of the birth of the Son of God is as accurate as to say it's a celebration of the birth of Santa. Neither happened in reality, so why not just enjoy the festive season as a time to love family, friends and those around you.

P.S. I think we're the only ones in the school with a crappy car and not a big 4x4 :D

Is the school a religious school?

By the way, so you are an 'intelligent' atheist? Does that make people who believe in God unintelligent? Or can I say I am a super intelligent God believer?!

bad form to correct spelling ..
But you must allow us to smile at

"intelligent athiest "