French teacher telling DD that she only doesn't believe in God because her Mother told her.

[ScienceDad]

Hello Mumsnetters, long time reader first time poster!

Am I being unreasonable in thinking that this teacher was way beyond the line in saying this? Here is some background, sorry in advance for the length, but I think it's quite interesting.

A while back, DD's cousin, who is 9, told her that she had to be good, or God, who watches them from the clouds, would punish her and send her to hell where she'd be hurt forever.

As you can imagine, this was very upsetting for a 4 year old girl, and when she asked us if there was a God in the clouds watching her, her mother and I, who are both intelligent athiests, told her not to worry about it, some people believe that there is but we don't, and worrying about it (as even religious folk should understand) is completely absurd for a 4 year old.

So fastforward a few weeks, and DD comes home from School (A very expensive, highly regarded private school, of which she is by far the top student in her class, as we were informed by her teacher at parents evening) Came home very upset after an after school French Lesson. While talking about Christmas DD was told that Christmas was about loving God, which, as you know how tactful a 4 year old can be, resulted in DD saying God wasn't real. Her French teacher in turn told her God was real, and she only doesn't believe in God because her Mother (My DW) said so.

I was fuming, to be honest, not only because it's the complete opposite of reality (not to make this a religeon debate, but surely the French teacher only took that stance because SHE had been told it as a child) but surely any mature adult would not correct a child on such a matter with no tact at all, especially when she is supposedly teaching in an expensive, non faith based school.

Sorry again for length, but AIBU?

I think YABU, because she does only believe that because you told her so.

That's how things work with 4 year olds.

The teacher was probably trying to undo the damage of 20 kids coming home to their parents saying "there is no god" I learned it at school today.

Also I'm an athiest but I think your attitude is a bit crap.

"intelligent athiest"
"Oppisite of reality"

I would try to find someone to come to the house to chat in french with your dd, playing a cooking etc. We meet a german family with two girls of 11 and 12 this Easter and my dd2 played with the two girls as they could speak english.

Then in your own home you will have a good idea of what is happening and your dd can leave the after school club.

You can complain but the woman has got her views and you will not be able to change those views and they will not be hidden in the future either

it is hard going through life not believing in any god, people that believe sometimes expect others to believe aswell and just don't understand that you don't know about there god

Just remember that Katherine may well be HUGE cos of ole Wills & Katherines marriage this year?

ooer wrong thread LOL!

Sorry, was I not clearly polite enough for you.
Let me rephrase that lest your mind explode trying to fill in the gaps for yourself.

Her mother and I are both intelligent, and also both athiests, sadly while touch typing 60 words per minute I mistype the occasional word.

Also it's not a crap attitude, we told her what we think, which is that we don't think there's a man on the clouds judging us. If she were to follow observation and logic, she would also see this.

The fact she brought it up to argue with an adult does not stem from her being brainwashed in any way, it comes from her being 4 and saying things at the worst times, as 4 year olds often do.

So a nine year old upset your daughter by announcing that there is a God. So you told your daughter there isn't. So she's gone and announced it.

Children parrot without fully understanding and only see black and white so tend to leap in and correct people if they're saying something they've been told is untrue. Both your DD and the nine year old child have done this.

As for the teacher, she reacted badly. I'm sure your 4 year old, being by far the top student in her class- at the very expensive and highly regarded private school- and having after school french lessons, will get over it. It might help her out if you relax and remember she's 4.

Oh IvyKaty, not knowing a second language to teach her myself is one of my biggest regrets, count yourself lucky to have such nice neighbours...

Narky Puffin I love your writing style, I can almost hear the seething. I'm more concerned that they are in employment of someone willing to correct a child for doing exactly what you're saying. Children parrot things inapropriately all the time, it's an adults place to let it slide, not tell them that theyre wrong, and certainly not a teacher, when it comes to matters of opinion.

I don't think you are being unreasonable, but I wouldn't take it any further (in terms of complaints to the school) at this point. You only have your 4 year old daughter's take on how the conversation went, and if I were you, I would simply repeat the line that some people believe and some people don't.

However, if it happened again, that would be the point at which I would be contacting the school.

Storm in a teacup.

Just say to your dd in a lowkey way 'different people believe different things'. That should be enough.

I grew up in a Christian school indoctrinated in Methodist religion. I am as lapsed a Christian as could be. Same for dh who was steeped in Catholicism both at home and school.

Surely you want your dd to understand that there is no one absolute view (yours included).

Blueshoes and BackwardPossom, I think I'll take your advice in leaving it for now, sticking to the line of other peopel can believe what they want, but don't let them tell you what to beleive until you've decided for yourself.

As I was raised Catholic and terrified (as most Catholic Children are) I intend to raise and teach her the wonders of the universe without giving any of the praise to a magical fairy :p

YANBU, it's tricky. When D was at a nursery he informed us one Saturday morning that it was not sunny because god was cross with us.
The thing is, children will constantly juggle the opinions, beliefs and information they hear, and much of it will be conflicting or contradictory. It isn't a bad thing for them, necessarily. And the teacher was indeed probably wondering about the children who would go home saying 'God doesn't exist!', and on the spur of the moent, handled it badly.

You could tell your dd that indeed you have explained your belief that there is no god, but that many people DO believe, and that while they are young many people believe thier parents, and as people grow some change those beliefs one way or the other. Because that is true.

The French teacher handled it badly, but had it not been for the 9 yo, it might not realy been an issue. I would talk to the parents of the 9yo

Why French? I only ask because I am fortunate enough to speak French and German (pretty much fluently despite only starting at 9 & 13 y.o respectively) and although any foundation in any foreign language is a great thing for a child growing up today I think there are probably more useful languages...

Anyway, that's a tangent. On the thread topic itself I would urge you to hear the teacher's side of things. Intelligent and top of the class she might be but she is only four. Maybe the adult's perspective of having to deal with twenty sets of parents children prompted her comments, and context was given?

No you haven't got an attitude at all.

The fact she brought it up to argue with an adult does not stem from her being brainwashed in any way, it comes from her being 4 and saying things at the worst times, as 4 year olds often do

As to this though I never said anything against your 4 year old just that the teacher was trying to stop a potentially akward situation of a load of children going home and announcing there is no god. Instead of one dad getting the hump she could have a whole class.

If you have followed mumsnet for a while you will see how many mother's were devastated when people announced there was no Santa Clause in front of their children. I think stating there is no god might upset some people slightly more.

It was a tossup between French and Italian, but French fit her timetable better. In a perfect world it would be German, Japanese or Chinese, since I can see those being very useful in future, but any language is a good foundation early on...

That really depends if the teacher was one on one with your daughter. If your DD announced that in front of other children the teacher had to do something. Otherwise she's have had a lot more parents on her back- though not as many as if your DD had announced something similar about Father Christmas.

I feel sorry for your DD though. You've put her in this position. You've given her info that she will feel the need to impart. At 4 she'll only see right and wrong. She'll feel upset and frustrated because people will challenge her over it and she's too small to stand her ground.

Maybe you could get her to say, "My Mum/Dad say..." as adults are less likely to directly contradict her then.

Were you really terrified? Are most Cathoilic children I never have been. Well, I am fairly horrified by the Church now, but not by the thought of a all-seeing, all-knowing God. I know it's a side issue to your thread (sorry), but there does seem to be this received wisdom about Catholics (scared, riddled with guilt) which seemed to pass me by.

"If you have followed mumsnet for a while you will see how many mother's were devastated when people announced there was no Santa Clause in front of their children. I think stating there is no god might upset some people slightly more."

:o PMSL - you have a fair point evildead.

Tis scary really, given the demograph... :o

Blu, I agree, Children and religeon and the absorbing of views like a songe at this age constantly teeters between potentially devastating and a massive mountain out of a molehill :p

Theevildead2, there's no point in speculating what her train of thought was without investigation.
One day I'll hopefully be boned up enough on Mumsnet research to discover that parents are mortified when people announce the none existance of Santa. Until then, I'd worry more about your own attitude with regards to spelling and grammar on the internet :)

What blueshoes said.
If your four year old is as intelligent as you make out, then this is the ideal opportunity to have a discussion with her about how and why people have different beliefs. And let it go.
I should also offer a warning- my fiercely atheist PILS, who would have complained loudly to the school in your case- managed to have two children who chose to become baptised in their teens and then went on to become full-on evangelical Christians, tithing their income and one becoming a missionary (!). So you can tell your children your views and help them understand difference and diversity- and then they will make up their own mind.

German's a great language but most Germans speak such flawless English. I'm fortunate to have had the opportunity to travel a lot for work and pleasure, and wish I spoke Japanese, Arabic or Spanish...but as you say any language isus good start. I also find the Latin I learnt (though only up to GCSE) really useful. But that is of course another debate! A linguist friend of mine recommends the Minimus books for a Latin foundation for children learning latinate languages- but I guess one step at a time, she's only four!

Why is it relevant that she is by far the top of her class?

Sorry, it's bad form on mumsnet to comment on spelling and grammar, just so you know... especially when you can't spell religion, sponge or existence.

I think if the French teacher had said that you only believe in God because your parents encouraged it......... it would fall in line with your views and you'd not have got your knickers in a twist and felt the need to come on forum telling us you're intelligent and paying this woman's wages

1. You have the evidence of a 4yr old telling you what the French teacher said
2. If you're going to make such an issue over every thing that your intelligent top grade student 4yr old confronts that you find tricky you're going to be very stressed by the time she's 15

Drop it.

The teacher is human and may well have couched the opinion that your 4 yr old is following your views in slightly different terms .......and frankly she is only stating an opinion which isn't far from fact?