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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Stopping my mother from seeing my daughter

108 replies

lalaandcj · 01/01/2011 18:46

My mother and I have never really gotten on, our relationship has never really been what you would describe as close. When I found out I was pregnant just over 5 years ago, we were not even on speaking terms, but I decided that my baby should know her Grandmother and so I resolved to try and put our differences aside in order for that to happen. Our relationship has never really gotten any better, but her relationship with my Daughter has generally been very good.

My mother used to have my Daughter overnight on a Monday and watch her on a Tuesday while I was at work, and my Grandparents would have my Daughter overnight on a Wednesday and watch her on a Thursday, because I could not afford to pay a full weeks nursery fees (I'm a single mum, with no contribution for my Daughters dad.) This arrangement seemed to go okay, there were a few ups and downs, I had a few problems with the way my mother behaved with my child sometimes as she tended to treat her like she was her daughter, not mine, making decisions without consulting me and even telling my Daughter to keep secrets from me on occassions when she knew that I wouldn't agree with what she had done. There were also times when she would completely disregard things that I had said, even silly things, for example, my Daughter is a huge Disney Princess fan, and so when the Princess and the Frog was shown at the cinema I asked my mother not to take my Daughter to see it as I had promised that I would take her, and when she returned from my mothers house the following day she had been taken to watch it. Although these things did bother me, I just put it down to her being an overbearing Grandparent and short of stopping her from seeing my Daughter, which I did not want to do, as I didn't want to do anything that might upset my Daughter, there wasn't a lot that I could do about it.

However, my Daughter recently started full time school and I did not think it would be fair on her to continue sleeping at other peoples houses during term-time as I want her to be in a proper routine. Also, my daughter had started asking why I didn't pick her up from nursery every day and why she had to sleep at Nana and Grandma's house all the time, so I promised her that when she started 'big school' I would take her to, and collect her from, school everyday and she would spend every night at home in her own bed. I told both my mother and my Grandparents about this at the time and no-one seemed to have a problem with it.

As the new School term approached in September I tried to come to agreements with both my mother and my Grandparents so that they could still see my Daughter every week. My Grandparents agreed to come over to our house on a Wednesday afternoon and have dinner with us, so that they could continue to see my Daughter on a regular basis, and I asked my mother if she would like to have my Daughter on Monday afternoons every week between 4-7 but my mother became quite aggressive, saying that she wanted to have my Daughter on a Monday afternoon from 4-7, a Tuesday afternoon from 4-7, and to have my daughter overnight every Fri until 6pm on a Sat and if I didn't agree she was going to go and see a Solicitor. I then offered to let her have my Daughter on a Monday afternoon from 4-7 and on a Tuesday afternoon from 4 until half past 5 (to take my Daughter to her Ballet Class) as a compromise.

After this disagreement my daughter would become quite aggressive with me when she returned from spending time with my mother, throwing terrible temper tantrums and telling me that I was nasty and that she hated me, I put it down to the fact that she was worried about starting at a new school, but then one day she came home and said to my Grandmother 'My mummy doesn't care about me, she only cares about herself' and when my Grandmother asked her who had said this to her she replied that Nana had said it. This comment had a terrible effect on my Daughter, she became very clingy and would no longer sleep in her own bed at night, she was also very upset. I tried to decide what to do for the best and thought that maybe if I spoke to my mother and told her the effect that those words had had on my Daughter, she might stop, my mother denied ever saying it, but things did seem to start to improve.

When my daughter started school things seemed to be going okay with the new routine, then after 2 weeks I received a letter from a solicitor saying that my mother wanted contact on Monday and Tuesday afternoons from 4-7 and overnight contact once a fortnight from 4pm on a Friday until 6pm on a Saturday. The letter also clearly stated that my mother had told the solicitor that I had stopped all contact between her and my daughter, before my Daughter started school and that I was continuing to refuse her access. I really did not know what to do, but I decided that if she was willing to lie to a Solicitor to try to get her own way and threaten to take me to Court, then it was more than likely that she had been saying things to my Daughter to try to upset her and me, so I decided that I was no-longer comfortable with her having my Daughter unsupervised, as I no longer trusted her to behave in an appropriate manner around my child. At this point (in September) i stopped all contact.

Four months later, things have gone from bad to worse, she has made terrible accusations against me, saying that I have deliberately hurt my Daughter and that she is going to phone Social Services on me. She has threatened to go on the Jeremy Kyle show, and when I told her that there was no way that I would go on there with her, she told me she didn't care, she was only going on to tell the whole world what a terrible person I am, she has told countless lies to my friends and family about me (thankfully most of them know that it is all lies), and since we are now going to Court for a contact order, she is threatening to sue me for her costs, which are going to be at least £1500.

I am sorry for all the rambling, but I wanted to put down as much of the background information as I can think of. There is more, but I don't want to go on too much, because I really need some advice about how to deal with this, I can't afford a solicitor and I'm not entitled to Legal aid because I work part time. I just wondered if anyone has been in a similar situation and can help me, I just want to do what's best for my Daughter, and I can't see how making her spend time with someone who is willing to behave like this can be what's best for her. I also don't understand how a court can force me to allow my mother to see my daughter when she has behaved in such a way. Please help, i'm at my wits end now and really do not know what to do!

Thanks!

OP posts:
Miggsie · 01/01/2011 18:50

Your mother sounds like a controlling bully, getting a solicitors letter from your mother is way over the top in this situation.

I suggest you read "toxic parents" and then "controlling people" available at Amazon or in the library. This will help you understand your mother.

I would then post a shorter request in "legal" on this site about the legal side. I do not think your mum can force an order for your daughter to spend time with her.

As someone with a terrible grandmother I can firmly recommend you stand up to your mum and stop letting your daughter see her. A controlling and bullying grandmother is no fun. I wish I could have stopped seeing mine.

ohballsballsballs · 01/01/2011 18:50

Jeremy Kyle? Biscuit
Afaik grandparents have no contact rights. But you have been using her for free childcare, and have now suddenly decided it isn't fair on your daughter to be cared for in this way, when you've been happy to let her do it for 5 years. It's about the money isn't it? You were happy to overlook her faults when she was giving you free childcare, but now she's not needed in that way you've had a change of heart.

Miggsie · 01/01/2011 18:51

I would also talk to the school about this and mention that you do not want your mum picking up your daughter under any circumstances.

MadamDeathstare · 01/01/2011 18:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MoonUnitAlpha · 01/01/2011 18:56

That seems unfair ohballsballsballs - the OP said she wanted to stop the overnights because her daughter wanted to, she was still letting her mother have contact!

5Foot5 · 01/01/2011 18:56

Wow that sounds like a terrible situation and you are definitely right to stop contact.

I am afraid I don't know enough about the legal side to offer any advice there but hopefully someone will come on who can.

The only suggestion I could make is that your grandparents sound quite reasonable and helpful people. Will they be prepared to help if this does in fact come to court?

sarahitaly · 01/01/2011 18:58

I can tell you that (about 8 years ago in the UK) my mother claimed to have been to a solicitor in order to see my nephews after she buggered it all up with my SIL and she said that essentially she didn't have any rights as a GP and so it wasn't worth the financial investment to peruse access through legal channels.

How about CAB ?

and I found this

www.proudgrandparents.co.uk/GrandparentsWhoAreDeniedAccessGrandchildren.html

SugarMousePink · 01/01/2011 19:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

hairyfairylights · 01/01/2011 19:02

I can't believe you've allowed her to carry on til it got this bad. Actually the solicitors letter has no weight as grandparents don't have any rights in the uk.

scurryfunge · 01/01/2011 19:11

You need to boot your mother and your grandparents right out of your child's life. They are harming her development and your relationship with her. They have no rights at all in the UK, so you can confidently tell them to eff off.

mummyosaurus · 01/01/2011 19:12

I agree try and get some advice on the legal bit here. If you need further advice I would book one appointment with a solicitor, which would cost about £50 (I think), make a list of your questions and get things clarified.

I would be very surprised if your mum had any contact rights.

I understand that you want your daughter to have contact with her grandparent and if she was happy to provide the childcare, it would have been silly not to take her up on it. But it sounds like now you have to put your daughter first and not be bullied into sending her to Nana.

I have very odd step parents and get put in tricky situations because my real parents want to spend time with my dcs, but the step grandparents get moody with them/shout at them (Step GD hit my niece once in sight of me and my sister, her mum), so I have to limit contact or be there when the kids visit. Oh, for a normal family!

ThisIsANiceCage · 01/01/2011 19:15

Right now, get a letter from the school, the ballet teacher and any other independent witnesses stating that they have seen your mother collecting and dropping off your daughter, or otherwise being in contact with her in the period your mother claims to have had no access. You don't need to scare them by explaining exactly why you need the letters, or in any way ask to them to "take sides".

Your mother has, IMHO, made a big mistake by putting in writing, with a solicitor, that you have been refusing contact: it's a demonstrable lie, and can't be explained away as a slip of the tongue or misunderstanding.

Once you've shown her up as a liar in this simple thing, she will find it harder to be believed in anything else she says.

curlymama · 01/01/2011 19:17

Gp's have no rights, you do, and you are doing the right thing by keeping her away from this selfish woman.

definately post on legal, and go to the CAB for some advice. One of the single parent charities like gingerbread may be able to help too, I don't know, but it's worth a try.

Let her go to SS, they will soon see that you are a good parent. Don't let her think that her threats of suing you or anything else scare you. You are the Mummy now and you have to be strong.

SugarMousePink · 01/01/2011 19:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BlueCollie · 01/01/2011 19:19

I think grandparents do have some rights now and she could try but if she has already had problems with previous grandchildren I would get evidence of this. Try and get everything she says or does in writing and keep a diary of anything she says or does and if possible right down previous harmful behaviour with dates and times. Inform the school and inform social services yourself that your mother is doing this and that it could cause psychological harm to your daughter. Have you tried to get legal aid? as far as I am aware it goes on how much you earn not only if you have no job. I am not sure she can claim costs off you for this and think she may be talking utter shit about that one!!!!! Is she paying for the solicitor herself as I also find it bizarre that she would get legal aid for this and it would be lengthy court process. It took my husband over 18 months to get minimal contact with his daughter (we ran out of money) so it certainly won't be quick for a grandparent as she will have to prove it is in the best interests of the child. You keep saying no to this toxic woman or only agree to surpervised access...again good to get cafcass involved in that as it can take place at a contact centre.

Good luck

SantasENormaSnob · 01/01/2011 19:20

Cut her off.

Afaik grandparents have no rights in this country.

Myleetlepony · 01/01/2011 19:25

Some of the advice given so far is good, some doesn't seem quite so good, so I agree with those who say invest in one solicitor's appointment, or maybe start by speaking to CAB. Meanwhile, as the others say, carry on with your life.
I think you've been perfectly reasonable. Grandparents do sometimes willingly help with childcare, and they will recognise that things change as the child gets older.

mjinsparklystockings · 01/01/2011 19:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Myleetlepony · 01/01/2011 19:26

Oh, and inform the school in writing that your daughter is not allowed to leave school with your mother.

charliesmommy · 01/01/2011 19:32

There are no laws that say a grandparent would have to have the child overnight. If anything, a court would prefer the child to be in its own bed every night, rather than moving around, especially during school time.

OhBalls, I think your post was very unfair on the Op. Her daughter has started school and therefore routine is more important than ever. It also seems that the ops mother is a nasty vindictive bitch who is poisoning the childs mind. I would have nothing at all to do with her if it were me and my child, and no court in the land can force you to do so either.

Onetoomanycornettos · 01/01/2011 19:35

This is such a shame, I do think the biggest shame is to go from such regular and extended contact to nothing. I agree with the poster that said that you did seem happy with the arrangements whilst you worked for nearly five years, and the 'interference' was not really very great, given that your mother was looking after your child for free every week including overnight.

But, ultimately it is her choice to go to a solicitor, and not the right way forward. I guess she has panicked about losing contact and done something drastic. I'm not sure you can put all your daughter's behaviour down to her making one (horrible) remark, though, if your daughter was starting school or about to start school, children are known to have increased anxiety up to six months beforehand, so her wanting to sleep in your bed may not be about your mum.

Your daughter must be quite confused by it all, I hope you find a way to sort this out which doesn't involve cutting your mother out of her life entirely.

LittleMissHootsMon · 01/01/2011 19:38

Sarahitaly's link is very interesting

this page in particular:

GP Rights to see GC

FWIW, I have found (though not with access issues) many people go storming into solicitors, and tell them to write their demands, whether or not they are actual legal rights. The solicitor does it (for the money) and is chancing it with you on behalf of the client (your Mum).

In short it seems to be that they (and the solicitor) are both banking on you reading the legal letter, crapping yourself and doing whatever they tell you to.

I had this from my exLandlady, sent me a letter telling me that I HAD to provide her with keys or I would be in breach of contract etc etc. Well I took it to Shelter and the CAB and they told me a completely different story.

Go to the CAB, to understand your rights as a parent to your DD (full and pretty much cast iron) and your DM rights (none practically).

Once you realise that her best and only option is to wait until you soften and agree to let her have contact with you and your daughter, then you ought to be enjoying your position as one of power and in no danger at all of being pushed around.

My LL gave me 7shades of hell, but legally she had no right to. Once I knew my rights life was a lot easier.

I really feel for you in this OP, she is bullying you and this will irreparably damage your relationship with your mum.

I'd also rattle the harassment cage at her if you need her to back off. That is a CRIMINAL offence.

CAB, they will sort you out!

Good luck OP and try to relax, she actually can't do anything.

classydiva · 01/01/2011 19:46

YOu can represent yourself, however she has no legal right to visitation.

All seems to me like scare tactics, advise you will allow supervised visits as she is endeavouring to bismirch your character to your daughter.

Further advice that you will not entertain legal costs as you made arrangements she was happy with initially however after finding out she is putting you down to your own daughter and telling lies about you you deemed contact was no longer appropriate.

Put it in writing to her solicitor, ignore her.

What a nasty piece of work she is.

Aims80 · 01/01/2011 19:57

Have you checked if it is a real solicitors letter? It should be on letterhead so give the office number on there a ring to check, you don't need to talk to them, just hang up.

You have done nothing wrong so don't worry. Contact the citizen's advice bureau. It sounds like you're doing the right thing by keeping your daughter away from a toxic influence.

A1980 · 01/01/2011 19:58

it isn't correct to say that grandparetns have no rights, they actually do and there is case law to support this. Article 8 of the Human Rights Act started it: grandparetns can use right to private and family life regarding their grandchildren.

I haven't done family since I was a trainee solicitor but I had cases involving grandparetns pursuing contact orders.

I think the difficulty you are going to have is that although you have had a very difficult relationship with your mother always, you were quite happy to allow contact frequently and overnight nonetheless. The court will take this into account: in other words, your mum's argument is likely to be that you cant have been that concerned as you allowed so much contact for so long with her.

However as i see it, you have made your mother an entirely reasonable offer of contact: monday's and tuesday's after school. She's only her grandmother, not her mother. Sometimes paretns only get two saturdays per month so you've offered her alot of contact and i think that is reasonable. I can't believe her solicitors are pursuing it to court given that you have made reasonable offers of contact.

Is your mum legally aided? If she is, it's hard to see how she got funding for it given the reasonable offer. If she is privately paying then her solicitors do what she wants on her instructions as she's paying for it out of her own pocket.

All you can do, if you can't afford a lawyer, is go to court and explain it as best you can. Bear in mind, the court will act in the CHILD's best interests. That is their only concern. They will not care what your mother wants or what you want, they care about aht is best for the child. Depending on how far it goes, they may well order a CAFCASS (Children & Families Court Advisory & Support Service) officer to prepare a report and this will involve meeting with you, your mum and your child individually and they will prepare a report on what is best for your child re contact. So you will get a cahnce to explain your concerns and that you've tried to make it work, made her reasonable offers, tried to facilitate contact but she's being unreasonable about it etc. You can also tell them that you thought it would be best for her to spend more time at your home.

At the end of the day, this is far less serious that a parent applying for an order. Even if she gets an order, so what if you don't comply with it? They wont arrest you, the child's only parent, for not complying with it.

As for her proposals, over night contact every weekend: is she FUCKING MAD! Some parents don't get given that. You are the child's mother, she is at school full time and you work during the week so the weekend is the ONLY time you have with her to yourself. Friday night is a big part of your weekend with your DD and I seriosuly doubt that a court will make that kind of order, handing over contact to a grandmother every weekend over to the detriment of the mother's time with the child.

To be honest, I think a more realistic order for a grandparent is contact twice a month, that may be all she gets.

Try not to panic, the family courts are very user friendly with litigatns in person.

I'll try and see if i can find any pro bono family law centres who can help you.

PS sorry for appalling typing, I am a useless typist and I can't be bothered to go back adn cahnge it all.

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