To ask my MIL not to smoke in her own home when we visit?

[sheeplikessleep]

MIL has always smoked, but DH's nan lived with them (who didn't know her daughter smoked). So, the smoking was restricted to one room and outside.

DHs nan passed away a few months back and my MIL now smokes in every room in the house. To be fair, she doesn't smoke when the kids are in the room (we have a 9 month old and 3 year old), but she is quite happy to smoke in there knowing the kids will be eating in that room in 10 minutes, for example. She smokes in the living room, when we are sat there, when the kids have gone to bed.

Having just spent 3 days there, I am not sure how to handle this. DH was going around opening windows and also had a bit of a coughing fit at one point (cue my MIL saying 'ex-smokers are the worst', DH just walked out of the room).

We only see them every 4 months or so, as they live quite a way away. We also don't have the best relationship with them. But I hate the fact that even DS2s gro-bag smells of smoke . Am I over-reacting by saying anything? DH says it isn't going to cause any 'damage' as we only visit for such a short time and so infrequently. But, I hate it and am on edge there because of it.

How do I handle this in a way that doesn't aggrieve my easily offended MIL? AIBU for asking her not to smoke in say the living room and kitchen when we visit?

"There is a great deal of evidence about the potentially harmful impact of 3rd hand smoke (that is the smoke paticles on surfaces clothes etc) and it is believed that it can be particularly harmful to small babies because they cuddle into people and also crawl around and have their hands in their mouths."

Now that I would be interested to see...

My view is generally that if the relatives/friends are cherished then the DC get more from going there, even with a bit of smoke, than if you avoided them completely because of the smoke. There is a big difference between people who smoke say 5 cigarettes a day in a different room to the children, and someone who's chainsmoking around them constantly.

I don't think it's unreasonable to initiate a discussion about her confining her smoking to one room when you visit (perhaps at least until the 9 month old is 2, which is when the cot death risk falls massively) - but you know her personality, so you will know better than me what result it's going to get.

I have a similar issue with my boyfriend's parents but I didn't realise the extent to which they smoked in the house. I took DS into the living room and I could feel it in the back of my throat - and I smoke occasionally (outside) - so it must have been bad, I felt very uncomfortable about DS being there, but he was having such a lovely time that I relaxed a bit and just thought - it's not very often I bring him here, it's unlikely he'll ever stay overnight, the benefits of him seeing people who love him are bigger than the risk to him from a small amount of second hand smoke.

*"There is a great deal of evidence about the potentially harmful impact of 3rd hand smoke (that is the smoke paticles on surfaces clothes etc) and it is believed that it can be particularly harmful to small babies because they cuddle into people and also crawl around and have their hands in their mouths."

Now that I would be interested to see...*

Our MW has told us that smoking is the main cause of cot death as babies absorb the smoke through their skin... she gave us an NHS leaflet saying you shouldn't hold a baby until an hour after you;ve smoked and even then you should change your clothes

"Our MW has told us that smoking is the main cause of cot death as babies absorb the smoke through their skin... she gave us an NHS leaflet saying you shouldn't hold a baby until an hour after you;ve smoked and even then you should change your clothes"

With respect NHS guidelines aren't exactly evidence... Look at what they say about alcohol consumption during pregnancy for example...

"Our MW has told us that smoking is the main cause of cot death as babies absorb the smoke through their skin... she gave us an NHS leaflet saying you shouldn't hold a baby until an hour after you;ve smoked and even then you should change your clothes"

do you honestly believe that holding a baby half an hour after having a cigarette is a greater risk than walking your baby beside a main road with traffic on it?

ridiculous.

I would not visit her, nor let her in my house or near my children. I once asked my MIL to shower and change before I let her touch my DS in his pyjamas, in her own house, and she did (she had been smoking elsewhere or I wouldn't have been in her house in the 1st place). As for the Nhs guidelines -thank god they are finally being honest -there was nothing in writing when my DSs were little to show my PILs.

In order for second hand smoke to cause problems it would have to be over a considerable period of time, not a few days every four months.

We are talking constantly being with someone who smokes for years and years.

Im a smoker and if someone comes to my house I would restrict my smoking to the kitchen or the back garden.

However, my children don't smoke they hate it but I do smoke in the kitchen.

Feels guilty now!

YANBU, but its a difficult one,

my own MIL doesn't smoke in the house when we visit due to DDs Asthma & insists she only ever smokes in the Kitchen, which is rubbish as the blinds over her chair are yellow as hell...DH is less non confrontational with smoking & his Mum, as he worries for her own health, (really nasty cough & chest) so she lies through her teeth, but only fools herself

the smell of her house makes me & DH both nauseous & because of her smoking, & we ALL leave smelling like ashtrays, & thats WITHOUT her smoking when we are there, so asking your MIL not to smoke in front of you, or when your DCs are there, will IME make little difference the smell.

have you thought of leaving print outs of the dangers of 2nd hand smoking & kids next time you go??...might give her something to think about??.....it worked with my MIL, who used to insist as DH grew up with it, it wouldn't harm DD

tbh, it's just one of those shit things you will end up putting up with. It is her house after all, and if she doesn't smoke when they are in the room - then well prob the best you can hope for.

I speak from experience btw. INlaws both used to smoke very very heavily - and we saw them similar amount of time to you seeing yours. DH also smokes, but hasn't lived in a property where he smoked inside for years so even as a smoker he found it incredibly hard going there too! They also smoked much more than he did.

I however detest it like you would not believe, and the stale smell is even worse.

Whenever we visited, when we came away EVERYTHING stank - and they too did not smoke around DS. I hated it so so much and found it quite stressful. Anyway - few tips, stay as little as possible, don;t put anything in plastic bags as it holds the smell more and when you do go, keep as much of your things as possible in the car and take absolute minimal things. For me - the pram hardly ever went in the house. Spare clothes in the house were kept to a minimum.

Even if she agreed to not smoke in the house at all whilst you were there, all your stuff will still stink and even my smoking DH finds that unpleasant. As it is both inlaws have now stopped and the smell does not linger on our things at ll now =- tis so much better and less stressful all round.

this thread has reminded me of a classic by my DS1.

We were visiting my Mum and Dad (both heavy smokers). They did not smoke in the house when my DS was there but the house was rank and really stank of stale cig smoke. Just no escaping it.

Anyway, my Dad asked DS if he would like to visit him at work (he rented a small standalone office a couple of miles from their house).

We took DS1 round and the first thing that he said as Grandad proudly opened the door of his office was, "ooh Grandad, your work smells just like your house" .

My parents have never smoked in their house since, they have repainted, re-floored and gotten rid of all of the curtains.

Dad says that the shame of a 5 year old noticing the smell was enough to prompt them to change.

looktowindward heres the stuff you wanted.....:-))

here

here

The smell of smoke always makes me feel really sick and dirty. I think you are entitled to ask her to smoke in rooms the children don't use at all during their stay. I'm not sure i'd want her to smoke next to you in the lounge in the evening either. At the end of the day though it is her house and if she is unwilling to think about the kids needs then maybe you do need to look at staying in a B&B and meeting up for day trips.

This is some info i've found on the BBC website about third hand smoke.

'Third-hand smoke' could damage health

Nicotine residues from tobacco smoke hang around for weeks or months
Lingering residue from tobacco smoke which clings to upholstery, clothing and the skin releases cancer-causing agents, work in PNAS journal shows.

Berkeley scientists in the US ran lab tests and found "substantial levels" of toxins on smoke-exposed material.

They say while banishing smokers to outdoors cuts second-hand smoke, residues will follow them back inside and this "third-hand smoke" may harm.

Opponents called it a laughable term designed to frighten people unduly.

The scientists say residue on clothing, furniture and wallpaper can react with a common indoor pollutant to generate dangerous chemicals called tobacco-specific nitrosamines or TSNAs.

The real danger is not third-hand smoke but propaganda dressed up as science

Simon Clark of the smokers' lobby group Forest
In the tests, contaminated surface exposed to "high but reasonable" amounts of the pollutant nitrous acid - emitted by unvented gas appliances and in car exhaust - boosted levels of newly formed TSNAs 10-fold.

Substantial traces of TSNAs were also found on the inside surfaces of a truck belonging to a heavy smoker.

The researchers say third-hand smoke is an unappreciated health hazard and suggest a complete ban on smoking in homes and in vehicles to eliminate any risk.

Cancer chemicals

Toxic particles from cigarette smoke can linger on surfaces long after the cigarette has been put out, and small children are particularly susceptible because they are likely to breathe in close proximity, or even lick and suck them, they say.

Researcher Lara Gundel, of the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, said: "Smoking outside is better than smoking indoors but nicotine residues will stick to a smoker's skin and clothing.

The most important step parents can take to protect their families from the dangers of cigarette smoke is to make their homes and cars smokefree

Ed Young of Cancer Research UK
"Those residues follow a smoker back inside and get spread everywhere. The biggest risk is to young children.

"Dermal uptake of the nicotine through a child's skin is likely to occur when the smoker returns and if nitrous acid is in the air, which it usually is, then TSNAs will be formed."

They are now doing more research to better understand what threat, if any, TSNAs pose.

Amanda Sandford of Action on Smoking and Health said: "The harmful effects of second-hand smoke are already well-established but this study adds a new dimension to the dangers associated with smoking and provides further evidence of the need to protect children, in particular, from exposure to tobacco smoke.

"The study shows that the residue of smoke on surfaces represents a potential risk for cancer but so far we don't know how big at risk."

Simon Clark, director of the smokers' lobby group Forest, remained sceptical.

He said: "The dose makes the poison and there is no evidence that exposure to such minute levels is harmful.

"That doesn't seem to matter, though. The aim, it seems, is to generate alarm in the hope that people will be stopped from smoking or will give up.

"The real danger is not third-hand smoke but propaganda dressed up as science. Until the evidence of harm is irrefutable, scientists and campaigners should resist the urge to tell us how to live our lives."

Ed Young of Cancer Research UK said: "This is an interesting piece of research that adds the possibility of an extra level of harm from tobacco smoke.

"There is clear evidence about the harmful effects of second-hand smoke to children, especially in homes and cars.

"The most important step parents can take to protect their families from the dangers of cigarette smoke is to make their homes and cars smokefree."

I would just stay in a hotel, especially when she has all those pets too.

The amount of washing you must have to do after your visit must take a couple of days. I stayed at my mil once with two of my dd's for about 3 days. She wasn't even there as she was on holiday but everything in my suitcase stank of stale smoke, all the babies blankets spare blankets clothes etc. Fil smokes roll ups so not sure if they leave a worse smell than normal cigarettes but we stank.

I just wouldn't want the confrontation so if Dh wasn't willing to address it I would just stay in a hotel/bb. I don't think I could put up with the smell for 4 days, different if it was just a visit of a couple of hours but not for days at a time.

unfortunately, there's not a right lot you can do about it - the room and its furnishings will stink even if she doesn't smoke when you're there.

My Mum is exactly the same - we visited for 2 days this christmas, and she smoked "in the litchen with the window open" while we were there.
She didn't havea fag in the room when my sisters, their husbands, their children were in the house, but when we got to our own home and unpacked, everything REEKED of fags.
All the presents my sisters gave us (mostly toiletries), all our jumpers (even those that we hadn't worn) and just everything.

It was horrible.

I've tried telling my mum several times that I don't like the smoking, that it's bad for her and it smells, but all she says is that it's her choice and of course, that she leaves the room to do it.

They live in a new house (only 8 years old) and the walls are practically brown from the tar.

I have the same problem with FIL. He's a 30-40 a dayer, in the house. The whole place reeks, and makes me feel sick at the best of times, worse now at 26 weeks pg. We live two hours drive away, and visit maybe six times a year.

We visited over Christmas, DP asked him to smoke outside whilst we were there, which he happily did, also because my SIL's 2 year-old-was around, with a cold. End of story really.

We tend to keep our visits short and not overnight where possible. We also try to arrange to go out, eg to a garden centre or NT house or something, where there's more room and fresh air.

I've read the articles Weemee provided links for - one is based on people's beliefs about third hand smoke (rather than the truth about it) and the other admits there is no direct evidence that third hand smoke is dangerous (unlike second hand smoke, where there is evidence).

It's perfectly reasonable to dislike the smell of smoke but possibly going a bit far to claim that it's any more harmful than other everyday environmental hazards.

I mean dislike the smell of third hand smoke.

ask her nicely to only smoke outside or in a room that the babies are not in, explain you appreciatre her house her rules but say you really dont want them exposed when so little

simple

Well the first link doesn't actually state anything about the impact of so called third hand smoke - just that the the idea of "third hand smoke" may encourage complete home smoking bans.

E.g.
"The authors concluded that there is an association between the belief that third-hand smoke is dangerous and strict home smoking bans. They suggest that ?emphasising that third-hand smoke harms the health of children may be an important element in encouraging home smoking bans?."

It also doesn't reference any published material about the claims - just links to the BBC and the Telegraph which then link to an article which is your next link.

The second is more interesting but even the author of the work admits that there is no evidence that anybody has ever become ill or suffered any adverse consequence from exposure to "third hand" smoke. And that is just one study and its far from conclusive.

Look, I can understand not wanting to be around or in the home of someone who smokes. Its an unpleasant habit. But to try and justify the decision on some very dodgy "evidence" is a bit silly.

It's a question of risk / benefit analysis. Yes, the (tiny) risk from "third hand" tobacco can be avoided by refusing to visit but is the risk worth removing the benefits of the Grandparents to the kids?

Personally unless the GPs chain smoke in the same room as the children, I'd be far more worried about traffic pollution on the way there...

And I write all this as a non smoker.

my post was ignored but i think it is a point that needs driving home. do those who believe third hand smoke is a risk have an idea of where on a scale of risk they would put it?

above or below your child being pushed/walking down a main road with traffic fumes?

or playing in the playground at school with traffic driving past?

I would stay elsewhere and just put up for a few hours. I don't think that smokers realise how unpleasant it is and that you have to shower,wash hair and all clothes once you get home.

I think this is one of those threads where you will get those who will prefer to justify their actions/beliefs (which they are entitled to)regardless of any 'evidence' show, those who perceive a risk and choose to minimise it by reducing exposure to 3rd hand smoke and those who hate the smell regardless of whether a health risk exists or not. OP, I hope you can find some good hints about dealing with the situation amidst the health debate that this thread seems to have become!