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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to not be totally honest with ss re my dgs?

122 replies

kaylasmum · 22/12/2010 15:11

I have been looking after my dgs for the last year, he is 4 yo. My dd has bpd and is receiving treatment. Ss have been in my dgs life for almost 2 years, he was initially on the register under physical and mental abuse but since he's been on a supervision order and had my home recognised as his address he has been deregistered. My dd has been improving over the year and my dgs should be returning to her care in the new year. The problem is that my dd has been letting things slip a little over the last week or two. My dgs has understandably got some behavioural problems and my dd has really struggled to control him in an appropriate manner. She Did attend a parenting class which has helped but I am concerned that she is noy going to be able to cope with him when she has him back home. there has been one or two incidents lately where she has screamed at him and callled him a freak, told him to shut up and pulled his hair. We had a meeting today with Ss about more unsupervised contact and overnight stays. The sw asked me how I thought things were and I said that things are much improved but Did'ntt mention the incidents. I feel caught in the middle, I want my dgs to be reunited with his mum but I am a little worried about his wellbeing given my dds recent outbursts.

OP posts:

Original poster

kaylasmum · 22/12/2010 15:50

ladybiscuit---- my dd is staying in, she just seemed a bit put out, if I had been in her situation I would have been jumping for joy. This past year has been so hard for all concerned, my lo's have found it diffcult because of my dgs behavioural problems. My dp is'nt my dds father and our relationship is starting to falter because of the strain.

OP posts:

FunkySnowSkeleton · 22/12/2010 15:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

prettyfly1 · 22/12/2010 15:53

Oh Kayla what a mare. If it is any consolation my five year old is going through the adhd referral process and I do know what you mean about relationship strain. Is there anyone around to support you and to give you someone to sound off too.

shinyshoesandglitterypoos · 22/12/2010 15:54

She sounds like she's not ready for the responsibility yet. You need to talk to the SW and tell them what you saw. There may be other options, more training, perhaps another MH assessment.

If she ends up losing her temper and whacking him and ss find out and they also find out you concealed previous abuse they will not give him back to you either.

Put aside your emotions about this - if a friend explained this situation to you, what would you tell them to do?

HecTheHallsWithBoughsOfHolly · 22/12/2010 15:56

Are you saying that you are lying so that your grandchild can go back to his mum because you just can't look after him any more?

Because you can tell them that and they can look at foster care. If you can't do it any more, there's no need to lie to put him back with his mum if that potentially puts him at risk.

Talk to ss, tell them it's too hard now.

PaxoIsEvil · 22/12/2010 15:58

Agree with Hec. If you are finding it tough, then talk to the SW.

NormaStanleyFletcher · 22/12/2010 15:58

You really can't make decisions on this because of how your DD will feel, or whether she will forgive you, however hard

You need to think about how your GS will feel and whether he will forgive you for NOT telling. He is the vulnerable, powerless one here and you must protect him.

Triggles · 22/12/2010 15:58

kaylasmum - I have to echo what others are saying on here. If you have any concerns whatsoever (and obviously you do,and for good reason!), you owe it to your DGS to be honest with ss about it. Your DD may be unhappy that you said something, but in the long run she will be that much better off for it.

I find it a bit alarming that she found it funny that you lied to ss as well. That's really not a good picture at all.

You know deep down that if you don't say anything and something happens to your DGS because your DD is not ready, you will feel horrible and responsible.

Telling ss is not only what's best for your DGS, it's what's best for your DD. She is obviously not ready for the responsibility yet.

hystericalmum · 22/12/2010 16:02

If she will do that in front of you, then what will she do behind closed doors.

You have to think of the childs well being.

Best wishes to you.

Original poster

kaylasmum · 22/12/2010 16:12

hec---- no, I'm not lying because I can't cope, I am willing to look after my dgs until my dd is truly ready to have him home. My dd swears to me that she won't hurt him. More than anything I want to see them reunited and happy. when she is at home with him he behaves well it just seems that if we are all together or out in town that he stats to play up and my dd finds that situation really difficult. Also the other day when she lost control with him she told me that she hates him and is'nt sure sometimes if she wants him back. When I confront her about this she says she does'nt mean it and that she loves him. Part of her illness is impulsiveness. I feel so guilty talking about her back when she can't defend herslf.

OP posts:

HecTheHallsWithBoughsOfHolly · 22/12/2010 16:14

She may very well not mean it. But that will be no consolation to him, will it?

Mummy calls me a freak but she doesn't mean it
Mummy screams at me but she doesn't mean it
mummy hits me?

No. You can't do this. It's not right. You're letting your grandchild down. He relies on you to protect him.

And you're letting your daughter down by not alerting people to a problem that they could help her with.

Original poster

kaylasmum · 22/12/2010 16:27

just want to add that my dd was the one who alerted the professionals to her abuse of her son as she realised what she was doing was wrong.

OP posts:

Lougle · 22/12/2010 16:29

kaylasmum my real worry would be that right now, you are seen by SS as a trustable source of support for both your DD and your DGS.

The minute SS get an inkling that you are colluding with your DD, they will start having to look at more difficult options. They may be forced to decided that not only is your DD not ready to parent your DGS, but also, you are not fit to be his proxy carer, because you will lie to protect your DD instead of protecting your DGS.

Short-term, your decision is entirely logical - give your DD a chance, the odd outburst overlooked. But you have witnessed 3 incidents in a short period. You need to decide now that long-term your DGS best chance of having his Mother in his life is to admit that they aren't ready for each other.

A 4 year old will tell people what is happening. Guaranteed. If you don't tell SS, he will.

chitchatinsantasear · 22/12/2010 16:31

If your DD gets care of her DS too early then you KNOW that it could well be a disaster! She obviously needs more time and if you lie about her behaviour she won't get it.

narkypuffin · 22/12/2010 16:38

Your DGS's safety has to come first. Yor DD swears to you that she won't hurt him then pulls his hair in front of you? She has problems with impulse control?

You need to tell SS because not only do you need to protect your DGS, you need to protect your DD. She obviously isn't in control of herself and how would she live with herself if she hurt him? Lying to cover for her isn't necessarily in her long term interests. If she has unsupervised contact when she isn't ready it could well lead to her having him removed from her.

theevildead2 · 22/12/2010 17:12

I'd hate to be you right now. But you owe it to your grand children to make sure they're safe!

prettyfly1 · 22/12/2010 17:19

No matter what she says when stable, this kind of outburst, even once, cannot be overlooked. Kayla in a very short while your son will be at school and if you think he wont say "I was out with nanny and mummy at the weekend - mummy pulled my hair and told me she hated me" you are much mistaken. You will then lose him. His behavioural issues are caused at least in part by her mental health issues, which whilst not her fault are a threat to him, and you cannot allow that to continue. I am talking from experience by the way, my sister has bpd - I know how awful they feel when they come back to earth - your dgs still must come first.

Ineedtinsel · 22/12/2010 17:27

I really feel for you but as a grandmother myself with a daughter who has challenging behaviour due I believe to an undiagnosed autistic spectrum disorder I can totally see how difficult this is for you.

My Dd1 has never as far as I know hurt her child but she really struggles with empathy and can seem cold and uncaring.
Over the last 2 years I have worked really hard with Dd1 and am now in a place with her where she will phone me if her LO is crying or tantrumming so that I can help her to work out what is going on.

I know you want to support your daughter but you have to put your Grandchild first. Your daughter may be angry with you but as her mental health improves she will get over it and see that you did the right thing.

Please phone SS and go and talk to them about this, they will understand and respect you for looking out for your grandchild.

Good Luck.

Porcelain · 22/12/2010 17:36

Her illness isn't her fault, she doesn't mean it, she can't control it...

Surely this is why you and SS need to protect her relationship with her son by not making her responsible until she can cope, it's unfair on her not to give her the best chance with him, and that might just mean waiting until she has more control over her behaviour.

LadyBiscuit · 22/12/2010 17:51

My cousin has BPD and has really made huge progress and is a brilliant mum to her kids now but there have been times in the past when their dad took them away from her because she was being a pretty rubbish parent - they were still together but they both agreed it was best if she wasn't responsible for their well-being at that point in her life.

Do you think your DD wants to control her illness? Is she taking her meds? Do you really think she wants him back or is she just saying that because she knows it's what you want to hear?

Sorry, this must be unbelievably hard for you but you must put your DGS first

allnightlong · 22/12/2010 17:52

Kaylasmum you keep saying wont but she alread HAS when she pulled his hair that was hurting him, when she was screaming at him that was hurting him, when she was calling him a freak that was hurting him!
She's already started abusing him again, it might seem petty to you at the moment but by coving up for her your telling her this level of abuse is ok.

By not telling the SW your telling your DGS this level of abuse is ok. When he needs help he wont be turning to you as you allow this sort of behaviour hopefully he'll tell a responsible caring adult who will imform the SS.
I doubt he'll be put back into your care, your DGS is older now and can tell others what is going on do you really want SS investigating you because you covered up abuse?

ElsieMc · 22/12/2010 18:09

You need to tell SS immediately. You could say you have just found out although I know this is somewhat less than hones. If your dgs is placed with you by SS, they will want to see that you are able to put the welfare of the child first and not your daughter's. This can place you in very dodgy territory as if a report ever had to be prepared to relating to who your dgs should stay with, this would really be a black mark against you.

Although this sounds harsh, I am not unsympathetic to your plight as I have been in the same situation. I absolutely had to show I could protect my grandchild.

Good luck

impatient1 · 22/12/2010 18:21

Hi kaylasmum, IMHO, you are all really lucky that your DD has other plans tonight.
I have seen what happens to some children who are returned to abusive parents that are'nt ready, and that was in post mortem photos. I really dont mean to scare or upset you, but this is fact. You need to tell SS the truth. You or your DD would be unable to live with yourselves if something snapped.

midori1999 · 22/12/2010 18:36

I agree with what Ladybiscuit is saying. Are you sure your DD wants her son back?

I also think it's quite important to consider that the way she has treated her son may not be enitrely down to her illness. My Mum has Bi-polar and although she was far from perfect when we were growing up, she was never physically or mentally abusive to us. I know everyone is different, but sometimes people need to take responsibility for their actions.

I definitely think you need to be honest with SS. If your DD has lost it and pulled her sons hair and called him a freak in front of you and when she is not taking full time care of him herself, what do you think she is capable of when she is stressed from taking care of him by herself?

insertexpletive · 22/12/2010 18:44

OP I think you know you have to have a frank and open discussion with your grandson's social worker.

My worry is this - your daughter knows that you have witnessed behaviour that most agree is not acceptable. Yet, she also knows that you have chosen not to share this with professionals. You are colluding and allowing her to believe that this behaviour is not a big enough deal to get too concerned about.

She is already finding it funny that you have lied. What she needs to see is that you do not condone her behaviour towards her son and want to protect him.

She is also 'telling' you, I think, in her own way that she is not ready to be a full time parent to her son yet. You need to 'listen' to this and get the professionals around you to offer some additional support.

I do worry a little that a four year old child needs a sense of permanency and security and that at some stage, some long-term decisions are going to have to be made about whether your daughter will ever be well enough to care for your grandson.

I am not underestimating that you are in a difficult position, but you really do not have a choice.

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