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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to be genuinely confused as to why anybody who isn't rich would vote tory?

232 replies

StuckinTheMiddlewithYou · 17/12/2010 16:25

Seriously, I don't get it. Unless you're earning at least £40K, why would you?

Enlighten me!

OP posts:
siasl · 18/12/2010 14:42

I voted tory but I am sensible enough to understand it increasingly doesn't matter who runs the government.

All three parties are still looking backward, desperately trying to run the UK as a 20th century nation-state with welfare for all. Unfortunately that nation-state is being rendered obsolete by a combination of globalization (emerging economies, multi-nationals, markets), demographics and modern technology.

All parties show a total inability to comprehend what is happening and thus their impact is increasingly marginal.

I think this evolution is probably a good thing for most of the world's population but the death of the "nanny state" is likely to be painful for the majority of the UK's citizens.

ISNT · 18/12/2010 14:44

Directed at monty, you said you "loathe the elitist left, the hypocrisy is bile inducing".

That is pretty strong IMO.

Please can you answer my question - someone who is well off and a socialist posted, you both immediately shouted "hypocrite" at her. Why?

Alouiseg · 18/12/2010 14:51

Loathing the elitist left is not a personally directed attack!

It is an observation that the elitist left have always thought that they know what's best for the people.

Now report my "attacking" thread and lets see how far you get. Or stop nitpicking and get back to the argument in hand.

ISNT · 18/12/2010 14:53

You said she was a hypocrite who made you want to vomit.

I want to know why you both responded to her post with accusations of hypocrisy. It's not nitpicking, I'm interested.

girlafraid · 18/12/2010 14:57

There is a type of aspirational person who votes tory despite the fact that there is nothing in it for them, historically they are the party of the "self made man" and if you see yourself in that vein you might tribally align yourself with them

I earn well (£90K+) but would never vote anything other than Labour because the Tories sicken me to my very soul. I also believe in paying all my taxes and believe its a priveledge to do so. Suspect there is some tribalism in there cause my background is working class but mostly can't stand the "I'm all right Jack, f* everyone else attitude" that epitomises much of modern Conservatism

tingletangle · 18/12/2010 15:04

I am not rich but do earn a good salary - above 50K. I gave up my six figure salary as I wanted to do something that felt more like a vocation. I do actually donate a proportion of my income to charity as well as supporting relatives and as a result live a very simple quite frugal life.

I am no elitist or champagne socialist ( I can only afford Cava for a start) I have done well in life because I was fortunate to be clever and have worked hard. I think I have a real responsibility to pay back into society for the advantages that good schooling and benefits I took when I had no other choice.

I am happy to pay a higher rate of tax and would pay more.

MsSparkle · 18/12/2010 15:08

I voted for them i am not rich. I voted Tory because i like their attitude. They want people to go out and earn a living for themselves. Labour encouraged people to sit on their backsides and expect everything for doing nothing.

WinkyWinkola · 18/12/2010 15:13

Philip Green was a Labour voter until this government. You can't call him unaspirational. Grin

Alouiseg · 18/12/2010 15:23

"You said she was a hypocrite who made you want to vomit."

Where did I say that? ISNT

tingletangle · 18/12/2010 15:24

I must have missed that MsSparkle, when exactly was the labour government telling me to sit on my arse because I would get everything for nothing.

Shit I have been working 70+ hour weeks when I could have had the same for doing nothing.

claig · 18/12/2010 15:29

'Shit I have been working 70+ hour weeks when I could have had the same for doing nothing'

apparently in some cases, you could have had more for doing nothing, which is why the Tories have their new policy of trying to ensure that if you work, you will be better off than if you don't.

MsSparkle · 18/12/2010 15:31

It's a wide known fact that some people would be worse off from working then if they claimed benefits.

montysorry · 18/12/2010 16:06

I am still waiting to find out why I am a hypocrite?

Cleofartra · 18/12/2010 16:17

"which is why the Tories have their new policy of trying to ensure that if you work, you will be better off than if you don't".

One of the major things the last labour government did to reduce severe poverty and reliance on benefits among working households was to introduce the minimum wage. Tories voted against it.

Now what about raising the minimum wage and making more public housing available at reasonable rents? Then people who work full-time could actually afford to feed their families and pay for their accommodation out of their own salaries, rather than having to turn to the tax payer to supplement poverty wages?

BTW, am I the only person here who thinks it's outrageous that big employers like Tesco and Sainsbury's have been banking HUGE profits, while the tax payer supplements the wages of a good proportion of their workers, who otherwise wouldn't be able to support their families on the wages they get from working full-time in these supermarkets?

tingletangle · 18/12/2010 16:19

No Cleo I think the exact same. Tax credits may have done some good but they are IMO a social evil in disguise.

Maybe that is an exaggeration but I have never wanted anything to do with them.

standupandbecounted · 18/12/2010 17:35

I think you have a good point with that cleo.

mousesma · 18/12/2010 19:17

Cleo that is an excellent point. If people were paid a "living wage" by their employers and housing costs were capped at a reasonable rate then there would be no need for many benefits.

It is ridiculous that you can earn more by not working than by working but the answer to this should be to pay the lowest paid workers a proper wage.

RudolfThePinkNosedReindeer · 18/12/2010 21:00

Because they're the only party that's got the guts to actually try to do something about the mess that the last government got us into.....

lifeinCrimbo · 18/12/2010 22:30

Yes it seems the only party that have the guts to stand up to big business are labour, and perhaps the lib dems when they havent been forced into coallition.

Labour stand up for communities and families. But Tories are quite happy for hard working people to be completely exploited and abused by big business, they do nothing to maintain a balance and protect the people who elected them.

The people who vote tory are selfish, not community minded, and seem to want to punish those who are worse off than themselves. Many people who vote tory are ashamed to admit it.

onceamai · 19/12/2010 01:38

I'm proud of it. Don't think I'm selfish and do a great deal for the community.

ItsGrimUpNorth · 19/12/2010 06:50

I think as life gets harder and harder for people, you'll find more and more getting angry and having a pop at the government and their supporters.

I simply don't believe there have to be such sudden, dramatic and far reaching cuts. At all. It's simply unjust. A longer term, moderate approach is far more appropriate and less painful.

iamnotreallysure · 19/12/2010 08:10

As things get tougher I hope perhaps we will finally get a shift away from shopping at and in the big supermarkets / retailers. Certainly they sometimes give us low prices and they are convenient but their low prices are rarely at their expense but at the cost of their suppliers - obviously this means their suppliers are either abroad or struggle to pay minimum wage here in the UK.

Big business means big profits for small numbers of people. Small business means less convenience, sometimes higher prices but many more jobs and a better / wider distribution of profits - usually locally.

I don't think any political party can totally fix our current economic issues, the majority of our society is likely to need a shift to lower incomes (or as a minimum lower disposable incomes).

As a society we have been living on credit (or living on the government / someone else's credit) in a global and mobile society taxing the rich at high levels is only likely to produce one result (they will avoid it or leave).

We must stop supporting non-dom retailers and businesses who use the global taxation environment to minimise their local UK tax whilst taking our income abroad, it is difficult to legislate against this so we need to stop using businesses that do this. If TopShop, Orange, Dail Mail, Kraft( Cadburys) etc want to escape UK taxation then we need to stop giving them our earnings and shop/ buy services elsewhere. This is probably more effective in getting them to re-examine their business strategies. If their UK profits / turnover reduce substantially then paying local taxes may just become a cost of doing business for them.

I would like to see legislation on tax clarity and tax paid which would make it easier to see which busineses / individuals accept their societal responsibilities and pay a fair rate of tax on their UK income. We can all then make a sensible choice in where and how we spend our money.

Personally I think that higher earners / businesses should pay a fair rate of tax which should be a % of income / profit - the same % as everyone else not higher. Many high earners have made lifestyle choices to earn their money and should of course pay more as a value in £'s - but they should not be punished / penalised by paying higher rates of tax. Ultimately this will almost certainly increase taxation revenues.

I do think we may face a substantial change in what we can expect as a day to day standard and style of living with both the poor and the highly indebted facing substantial challenges. Property prices will need to fall - but this does of course mean that all of the suppliers and employees to the property sector will have to adjust their wages / profits etc.

Hopefully people will be able to adjust and hopefully this will come at the expense of big business as we re-examine our household expenditures and shed or reduce our reliance on those essential (but in reality optional expenses) such as mobiles, subscription TV / cable, ready meals and many of the trappings (or in truth) traps of current society.

I vote Tory because I believe they are more likely to allow us all to make (at least) some of our own decisions. My experience of history shows (living through the 60's to now)is that Labour with good intentions tries to - legislate / make all decisions - on our behalf - but those decisions are based on what they (and their paymasters the unions) believe we should want.

The unions serve a valid purpose in ensuring the excesses of businesses / employers are curbed. But businesses and employers create our jobs and need to be given the freedom to do so.

Big government is grossly inefficient in delivering its (often laudable) aims.

Sorry for the big rant - but I think we all need to take more personal responsibility for ourselves (and take more personal responsibility for those who can't) and be given the tools, opportunities and information that will allow this.

Merry Xmas Xmas Grin

2rebecca · 19/12/2010 09:26

I didn't vote tory but no longer vote labour. Thankfully the NHS in Scotland is still keeping large private companies out and the SNP are far more socialist than labour despite being overly friendly with super rich folk like Trump and Souter.
Labour were ruining the NHS in England with continuing Tory PFI projects and privatising general practice.
I hated the whole Nulabour thing.
I actually vote Scottish Green where possible but don't think the labour plan of letting large numbers of people get benefits and depend on a shrinking minority of workers was sustainable.
Everyone who can work should be working or making maximal effort to work unless they take a personal decision to be financially supported by their partner. Also people should be paying for their own kids. We're an overpopulated planet.
Nulabour were also rubbish on environmental policies.

Niceguy2 · 19/12/2010 09:50

I see two types of voters out there.

Those who think that the government should make our lives better, that the rich exploit the poor and that governments know best.

And those who think that government should do the bare minimum, leave the citizens to sort themselves out and that if you do manage to get rich within the law then fair play to you.

I am the latter so am a natural Tory voter. Those in the former generally vote Labour.

tingletangle · 19/12/2010 10:40

A genuine question Niceguy what about those who cannot help themselves? There was a time in my life when I was ill and we did not think I would ever recover when could not help myself and needed the state. It was only a short period of time but the state enabled me to get back on my feet and thanks to that I am back to being a HRT who will pay back every penny I took plus some.

I have no problem with people getting rich, personally it is not for me - having done it in the past. But I do think they have a responsbility to help those less fortunate.I could not enjoy the fruits of my labour if did not distribute some of it.

I have been a rich person who expolited the poor, it is naive to think it does not happen.

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