to be genuinely confused as to why anybody who isn't rich would vote tory?

[StuckinTheMiddlewithYou]

Seriously, I don't get it. Unless you're earning at least £40K, why would you?

Enlighten me!

Again, so many cries of "people only vote Tory to make themselves look posh and sophisticated" or "people only vote Tory because they're too stupid to know the truth".

Well you know what? We're not all the same. We have different values, dreams and priorities. What is a critically important political issue to one person is irrelevant to another.

What ever happened to respect for people who believe differently to you?

Personally, I see the crap and the slightly lesser crap in each party, and wish they'd both fuck right off.

But when it comes to election time, we all have to choose the turd sandwich or the douchebag. People don't choose one or the other just to be controversial or because they aspire to a certain demographic. They vote for a party because they believe that party represents the best choice for themselves, their families and their community. They don't do it to piss you off.

We're all just doing the best we can with a bad situation. And hurling abuse at each other over our different choices is not going to help one big.

Save your abuse for the politicians who are all breaking promises, fighting amongst themselves and screwing all of us over.

Chocolate- Cegg isn't wrong the financial crisis was a large factor in causing the recession, the problem we had was that we already had a deficit before the crisis so were in a terrible position going into it, which meant it was deeper and more prolonged than other countries.

The recapitalisation of the banks didn't contribute to the structural deficit that we currently have

Annie I said some people vote tory for those reasons.

chocolatesanta

The recession was caused by the credit crunch yes. However, the Labour govt was stupidly running a structural deficit when it should have been running a structural surplus (like Australia was for example).

If they had saved money during the boom years, the UK could now be spending during the recession (like Australia did) to help stimulate the economy. But Gordon Brown was so stupid/arrogant he thought he had "banished boom and bust". Divot!

tingle - and did you ask them this? How do you know anyone's reason for voting the way they do?

To assume anyone votes from a position of ignorance and stupidity is pretty insulting.

You could easily say the same of people who vote Labour just because they're not Tories.

Tory voters don't hold any monopoly I can see on stupid reasons for selecting a party.

Annie it is something I have discussed with people. I am involved in politics and therefore it is often a topic of discussion in this house.

I also know people who vote tory because they think that sits well with being a Christian. They link a tory vote with traditional values. The other common reason is they vote tory because they will cut benefits or immigration.

Actually, I think the more interesting question is why, despite the economic situation, the war and the 3 term boredom, the Tories STILL couldn't get a majority in May.

And people vote Labour because the Tories are milk-stealing bastards, etc etc.

Wouldn't it be nice if people actually read all the manifestos with an open mind?

I think what we need is not one new party, but two. With new names, new colours, no-one currently working in politics allowed to run. Each party coming up with genuine, reasonable policies and manifestos. Then we could start from scratch. Sadly there's far too much history and prejudice in UK politics.

Sigh, a girl can dream......

monty - cos the Tories suck as much as Labour.

I'm still devastated the Lib Dems turned out to be such a damp squib.

Its not difficult to see why, over the last 13 years Labour have shown total fiscal irresponsibility and have left us in a massive hole. Add to that the way they started a war that was probably illegal on a pack of lies then I can't see why anyone would want to vote for them to be honest.

tingle you may have discussed this with 'some' people but how many? 10? 20? Hundreds? Thousands?
AnnieLobeseder you make many good points and however you look at it tingle, your points were pretty ignorant

As I said before, I is insightful cos I is forrin and not historically biased towards any of the wankers. I hate them all equally and may explode at the next election cos even my cop-out vote for the Lib Dems won't work again. They have gained equal wanker status with the other now.

good link to the robin hood tax - thanks Grim

innit Annie!

ayyyyy!

I'm still devastated the Lib Dems turned out to be such a damp squib

I grew up a working-class Tory - my parents used to vote Labour, but voted for Thatcher.

The Tories believe in giving you the freedom to make your own choices. They believe in taking responsibility for yourself, your family, and those around you. They won't casually throw away taxes (and worse, debt) so people can realistically view benefits as a lifestyle choice. They believe that the State is the servant of the people; not its master.

The Tories (again in theory) won't run up huge debts. They will cut your tax (again in theory). They will always have to come in to fix Labour's mess - because every Labour government in history has left the national accounts in a disaster zone. They will cut bureaucracy, and tell the EU to piss off. They care about our military. They don't want low-skilled immigrants coming to Britain.

These aren't concerns only for the rich.

Above all, though, they stand for aspiration.

Thatcher taught the country this, more than any other Tory PM. She showed us that it was possible for the ordinary working family to fulfil their dreams and make a better life for their children, without relying on the State. Before her the idea that ordinary people could afford cars or foreign holidays was ludicrous. Yet by the end of her time, hundreds of thousands had bought their council houses, and even owned their own shares in the newly privatised industries.

Not many people earn £50000 a year, but working-class Tories believe it is at least possible for them. If not for them, then at least for their children, if they are given the chances to make the most of their abilities. Clever but poor kids had the chance to escape poverty in grammar schools.

Sadly, though, the premise of the question isn't entirely empty. As I have said here dozens of times now, this is Cameron's biggest weakness. Unless he gets the "strivers" on-side, like Mrs Thatcher did, he won't be able to win a majority next time around. He just doesn't "get" aspiration as instinctively as Thatcher did. He is a little too metropolitan and urbane to automatically click with these voters. Part of it, sadly, is background - he can't do anything about that though. Everyone could identify understand a grocer's daughter, even if they didn't like her ideas.

Thankfully, though, Cameron just has to be better than Red Ed - who, just like the OP, doesn't "get" why people might vote Tory. That is already a huge disadvantage.

My view is that people who vote tory are either rich ankers or misguided.

I couldnt support labour after all their mistakes - iraq, ID cards, closing down our local hospital,.. etc and I wanted Brown to go, finally. It seemed they had just stopped listening.

But the tories are the rich, trying to increase their riches at the expense of everyone else. Their only 'values' seem to be about making money, no matter which valuable community assets they sell off cheap, or how it affects communities or families, as long as their rich friends can make a fat profit. I always felt they had depraved morals.

That is why I supported the Lib Dems! I checked their policies first, and they were gooood. Still feel sad they didnt get in, and didnt have enough seats for coallition with labour :(

Actually I read 'The Prince' by Machiavelli, as I kept hearing people mention it. There is a section in there about how to take over and control a democratic country. It sounded quite familiar as its exactly what the tories did/do. :(

Still, at least they dont have a majority :) (thank god!)

'The Tories believe in giving you the freedom to make your own choices. They believe in taking responsibility for yourself, your family, and those around you.'

Longfingernails, THIS is my fundamental problem with the Tories. The above is all very well if you can take responsibility and look after yourself. However, consistently, throughout history, the Tories have shown that they see this issue as black and white. Either you do look after you and yours in which case you're one of them or you don't and therefore aren't.

Spectacularly failing to see the POV of those who for whatever reason cannot look after or provide for themselves or their loved ones.

Aspiration and meritocracy is all very well but it loses its virtue when 'merit' is only seen in the 'able'.

I never claimed to be speaking for all tory voters, I was referring to the tory voters that I know. Surely that is all we can do, make points based on what we know.

I didn't claim to have access to secret political wisdom but neither am I ignorant.

I am sure people are going to leap on me and claim I am ignorant again but if I may offer my own experiences and observations again. I have noticed ( infat I do this myself) that if people manage to escape poverty they can be quite tough on those who do not manage to do the same. Very few of us see ourselves as unusual or extraordinary and therefore if you escape the benefits trap you think others should be able to do the same as well. That may also lead people who are not rich to vote tory.

LFN - you are in the misguided category then.

Seriously how can you say the tories support education, when they have abolished EMA and taken away so much funding from universities (and are saddling all potential students with mortgage style debts?
Also, they dont support grammar schools.

Also, they raised VAT which hits the less well of hardest. I think they should enable those who are working hard, but not well paid, to make ends meet on a low salary.

The lib dems' policy of taxing low paid people less does this, and their policy of reviewing the benefits system to ensure people are better off in work helps people get off benefits.

So the question remains, why would anyone vote tory?

Lifeincrimbo I do think that people think the tories will make tough decisions and make cuts may fix the economy.

montysorry That is a naive stereotype.

Do you really think that Iain Duncan Smith doesn't care about the poor? It is how you help the poor that the parties differ on. Labour believes you help the poor by giving them money. And it does help them - today - but tomorrow, they will need more money.

The Tories believe you help the poor by getting them out by helping make them more self-reliant - by getting them into the culture of work.

Everyone, whatever their political complexion, wants to help those who genuinely can't help themselves. The disabled, and their carers; the old and frail; the ill. That isn't to say they will support every individual scheme that helps these groups; maybe the money could be better spent in a different way - but the principle is surely universal.

The Tories, though, won't stand for people who don't want to help themselves; people who choose not to make their own way in the world.

lifeinCrimbo Obviously I agree with the Lib Dem policy on the lower income tax threshold; it should have been a Tory proposal (indeed, similar things happened under the 1980s Tory governments).

The "always better off in work than on benefits" is more a Tory idea; Iain Duncan Smith has been working on it for ages. The Lib Dems have contributed important improvements to welfare though, particularly for pensioners - although he is on the social democratic left-wing of the Lib Dems, Steve Webb is a very impressive politician.

Well, unlike Labour, they don't want to close down existing grammar schools, and would like them to be able to expand. Personally, I would like new grammar schools to open, but understand why it is politically difficult.

The Free Schools are an excellent second best. They will help bring the choice which rich parents have always in the private school sector to the State sector, and help smash the teachers' unions which have been responsible for blighting the life chances of entire generations.