to be genuinely confused as to why anybody who isn't rich would vote tory?

[StuckinTheMiddlewithYou]

Seriously, I don't get it. Unless you're earning at least £40K, why would you?

Enlighten me!

I have posted on the other thread but don't think that most people vote out of self interest, surely we all vote for what is good for society as a whole. We may not agree with the path to get there but apart from a few self centred individuals that is what we all want.

No, they weren't worried about the welfare of the entire country. They were worried about their house losing value and that people on benefits were 'all' living in big houses. Oh and they didn't like GB.

I agree monty, I teach and there is no stereotypical left ruling the staffroom any more.

I also think there is no stereotypical left either. I consider myself left wing, I tend to vote for tax rises and higher public spending. My views on grammar schools change with the wind. But I support students paying back university fees and want to get rid of universal child benefit.

Yes, I also agree with getting rid of the universal child benefit system.

It's madness both fiscally and morally that families like mine receive money which we automatically put straight into our childrens saving accounts. Most of the parents we know don't need it and have simply been putting it away to pay for HE when the time comes. So families like ours will find it easier because we'll be using money given by the government which we have never needed. Oh the irony!

monty I take it you donate most of your 6-figure salary to worthy causes and you and your family live as "the poor" would. How lovely. I do dislike the hypocrisy of a champagne socialist!

My Mother is a teacher, she holds very similar views to Monty.

Her husband worked tax free in the emirates for years her son went to an independent school followed by a grammar. She is a direct descendant of a (now dead) very prominent socialist MP.

I love my Mother dearly but loathe the elitist left, the hypocrisy is bile inducing.

Not that it's any of your business, AP but we donate, through monthy DDs, substancially more than the CB we receive each month so we feel the money goes where we'd like it.

I'm not sure what you mean by the hypocracy of the champagne socialist. Are you saying it's hypocracy to earn what we do? That's ridiculous! I think you're confusing Socialism with Communism. You don't need to give away all your earthly goods to realise how fortunate you are and to want the ethos of your government to be one of empathy and compassion and for your taxes to go where they are needed.

hypocrisy even.

Why is it hypocrisy???

I think it is ridiculous to say bthat because I am fortunate I have no right to feel that I should pay hefty taxes and that those taxes should be helping those unable to help themselves. You are saying that it's only reasonable to be a Socialist if you are poor or disadvantaged.

I repeat; Socialism is not communism.

What a deeply unpleasant post alpinepony.

BIL votes Tory. He is quite right wing in a lot of his views and probably would have voted BNP if there has been a candidate.

A lot of people were very concerned about the surge in immigration, but felt they couldn't talk about it without being labelled a racist. I think that Labor really didn't listen to people and their legitimate concerns about the influx of people, the stress on local services to cope and general planning.

I see I also spelt substantially wrong. Product of my 70s education no doubt! Still, at least my nice, posh uni sorted me out.

Are you really both saying that people who are well off are not, by definition, allowed to have socialist views, to care about others?

Seriously?

What about all those wealthy victorians who set up schools and socially resonsible businesses and all the rest of it? Hypocritical bastards?

Is this ire just reserved for people who you think should be tories because they are wealthy? It's ridiculous.

Basically someone has come and said they are doing very well, and want to live in a society where good fortune is shared. And you call them a hypocrite and have a right go. Nice.

Both being AP and alouise.

Does it make you angry that someone who should on paper be a conservative, isn't?

Not at all, what angers me is the socialist ethos that they think they know how to spend our hard earned money better than us.

If we could choose where our taxes were directed I think that truly needy people would be helped but the ridiculous process of topping up inadequate salaries through tax credits therefore letting big companies off the hook and trapping people into a benefits culture is crazy.

Don't worry, ISNT. It just makes me feel more secure with who I am and why I vote the way I do. If ever I doubted, a thread like this comes along and reminds me very clearly, why I could never vore Tory.

I would like to see a flat rate tax and a vastly simplified welfare system. That would save a fortune in red tape and administration which would leave more money in the pot for health, welfare and education.

And right there is a fundamental difference. I think a flat rate tax would only benefit people like us and whether you find it distasteful or not, that doesn't seem right to me.

I'd argue that all of the "socialists" who claim they care more about children than someone of a Conservative view - are in fact not caring about children. What is caring about saddling a child with a rising debt? What was it last time? 36k for each man, woman and child? The spending cannot continue - unless of course you don't love your children.

Isnt - of course it doesn't anger me - what is a "tory on paper"? An absurd claim. It saddens me that women my own age can't count - i.e., balance a budget.

A flat rate tax would benefit the country and the economy as a whole.

Currently an individual starts paying tax at about £79 pw. Then they have to apply for tax credits to turn that into a slightly more realistic living wage. That is costly, confusing and a waste of resources.

I have lost count of the amount of queries on mn regarding the maze of benefits and credits. Surely if you work, you pay tax. Making childcare tax deductible seems eminently more sensible than faffing with tax credits.

Housing benefit is artificially inflating rents and keeping property prices unrealistically high.

Keeping people who earn over 50k a year beholden to tax credits is surely ludicrous.

'why anybody who isn't rich would vote tory?'

because they know it makes sense. They care for the country as a whole and not just for themselves.

Alpine and alouise you just both strongly attacked another poster for being a socialist and have a high income. Why?

No I didn't! Report my post where I did and let's see how seriously it's taken,

Disagreeing with a viewpoint is categorically not a personal attack.

Come up with some intelligent debate of your own and leave our posts alone.

In fact, quote my strong attack on another poster!