To not give my children the swine flu vaccine?

[wintersnow]

I decided not to last year as I wanted to wait and see how safe it was but am reconsidering this year after several people have died. Did you give it to your children and what were your reasons to give/not give it?

Caboodle, Re: mercury and autism:

"Columbia University Study Proves IOM Wrong.
First Animal Model Shows Thimerosal, Mercury Preservative in Vaccines,
Causes Autistic Behaviors and Neurological Changes in Mice

[The opinions expressed in commentaries are those of the author and
not necessarily those of the Schafer Autism Report. But I have go along
with this one. -LS
www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/06-11
-2004/0002191717&EDATE=

A research study published June 8th in Molecular Psychiatry concludes
a genetic link between Thimerosal and autism.
The study tested several strains of mice, one carrying a genetic
susceptibility to autoimmune disorders. It was this strain that developed
autistic-like behaviors following a mercury-containing vaccination schedule
similar to that of U.S. Children. According to the National Autism
Association (NAA), autoimmune disorders in families are prevalent in the
autism community.
It also comes on the heels of a May 18th report from the Institute of
Medicine (IOM) that found no link between Thimerosal and autism-based
primarily on flawed epidemiological studies to reach its decision.
An IOM panelist, Dr. Steven Goodman, in an LA Times story Wednesday,
said the new research does little to overturn the ?tremendous amount of
human work that doesn't find a clue of a connection.?
Scott Bono, Board Member of NAA responded, ?In my opinion, Dr.
Goodman's attempt to trivialize a study with such enormous implications for
the health of humanity, and referring to 'human work' that does not support
this study, is at best wishful and at worst a malicious attempt to mislead
reporters and the public. There has been no credible biological or clinical
research by the government into the vaccine-autism connection. To what
'human work' is Goodman referring? The 1929 Eli Lilly study where all human
subjects given Thimerosal died? Or the highly questionable November 2003
epidemiological study produced by humans at the CDC? I believe Dr. Goodman
is ignoring a huge 'clue' staring him in the face.?
Mady Hornig, lead author from Columbia University, stated in a
release, ?Identifying the connection between genetic susceptibility and an
environmental trigger for autism in this case Thimerosal exposure is
important because it may promote discovery of effective interventions for,
and limit exposure in, a specific population.?
Over ten vaccines and flu shots still contain Thimerosal.
Cong. Dave Weldon (R-FL) introduced HR4169 to remove it from all
vaccines. NAA asks the public to call on their Congressmen to pass HR4169.
To learn more, visit www.nationalautism.org."

Also Caboodle, if it's safe to have mercury in vaccines, why do you think the World Health Organisation recommended for it to be taken out?

Vallhala

While I respect your decision not to immunise your children even if I don't agree with it at all, I don't think you're in any position to complain about selfish parents not isolating their children because of how it might affect yours

I have much more sympathy for the parents of a baby with measles who is too young to be immunised or a child like Riven's dd for whom it's too risky to be immunised because vaccination rates for measles in London are now below critical levels for herd immunity - and all because of junk science. Your informed decision to piggy-back on the responsible decisions of others is putting those children at risk (since, unfortunately, others do actually think like you) as you openly admit.

If you have zero concern for other children's wellbeing, how on earth can you expect other parents to have any for yours? Sure, justify your decisions but don't then criticize others for applying the same logic (ie thinking only of their own children). People in glasshouses really shouldn't throw stones...

veryberry21

If I said that I've never strapped my child into a carseat and here she is at 12 without so much as a scratched finger in a car accident, would it make as much sense?

I always think it's odd when they use the big pharma only in it for the money arguement for being anti vaccine and claim to have done lots of research, when their research is mercola, whale, wakefield, halveson etc. Mercola, wakefield, halveson have all made their money from scaremongering and whale is just a nutter.
Claiming your child is rarely ill for evidence for being anti vaccine is ridiculous. Lots of children who are vaccinated are rarely ill. My DD is fully vaccinated and gets over the occassional bugs very quickly. Neither of my two hardly ever have stomach bugs, even if whole school is going down with d&v.
DS 15 has had the flu bug this week but I was thinking of getting him the flu vaccine because he has a genetic problem which means he still gets febrile convulsions. Thankfully even though he has had a temperature he hasn't had a fit. The febrile convulsions may not be dangerous but twice he has had injuries because of the fits.

If only big pharma would set their sights on neglected diseases, maybe we'd actually have a vaccine for malaria....

Well, I spent a long time thinking about vaccines for my DS when he was younger (in particular MMR) and spoke to friend who is a nurse, her attitude is that vaccines are precious and we are very lucky to have access to them. My DS has an underlying health condition and so could be more ill with eg swine flu, than average person. I get him vaccinated when its recommended by docs, but he is well enough to be vaccinated.

I also want him vaccinated to assist with the 'herd immunity' for those with DC's who are not able to be vaccinated because of their poor health.

I notice nobody has answered my question but going on about 'junk science' instead.

In answer to your question OP, yes, I would if one of my children was in a high-risk category. I'm going to get immunised myself and if I can find somewhere to immunise my children privately (superdrug, boots etc don't do children and they're not offered it on the NHS as they're not high risk) I'd do it. I used to live in the US and got my children immunised against flu every year. Their immune systems are perfectly fine but if I can save them from the unpleasantness of flu and the potential complications, then I will. I have no concerns over the safety of the immunisation.

I think a lot of concerns about immunisations ARE based on junk science.

Science doesn't come into it.

I will ask again.

Why do you think the UK continued using mercury in baby vaccines after the World health Organisation recommended for it to be taken out?

Do you think this inspires trust in parents?

Btw the study I referred to is peer-reviewed.

oops, I thought it was the OP upset about the direction of her thread!

Got no idea about that study but I'd say that it's all about science!

Nobody answered mine either so again would you allow your child to be vaccinated if you have a close family history of severe adverse reactions for the protection of others. Would you take the risk?
My choice to not vaccinate wasn't based on 'junk science' it was based on seeing daily what that damage causes.

vc

But that's the whole point. There are people who, for various reasons, can't immunise their children. These children are the ones who should benefit from herd immunity where children who can be immunised are immunised. I never said that's junk science. However, a lot of the arguments against vaccinations for healthy children ARE based on junk science

People seem to think that this is a hobby of ours to try to find scientific reasons as to why vaccinating is a bad idea.

Actually, for me it has nothing to do with science because it seems blindingly obvious the government doesn't consider individual circumstances at all when making policies about vaccination - and they think collateral damage is acceptable in the name of herd immunity. Their agenda is different from mine.

So it's down to me to consider my individual children. Because I, and they will have to live with the outcomes.

leoniedelt I was actually agreeing with you wrt there being a huge diffrence between injecting somthing and ingesting it.

But of course fruit shoots are a bad example as there's no benefit to drinking them.

I was just trying to say how strange it is that drinking a fruit shoot is a terribly dangerous thing to do but injecting mercury into your child isn't. I'm probably rambiling and not making much sense.

That'll teach me to post my random musings

If they already have autism, what is the concern about vaccines? I thought there was (since disproven) concern that vaccines caused autism.

electra

I'm not sure how you weigh up the risks of something if you don't take science into account. Of course public health agencies have to look at the greater good - that's their job. If you have any concerns about vaccines for your individual circumstances then that's something you'd reach a decision on, hopefully based on clinical and epidemiological evidence.

For example, I want to vaccinate my children against flu even though the government haven't recommended it through the NHS - and that's based on my understanding of the relative risk of vaccinating and not vaccinating for my children which is based on scientific evidence.

If you don't use science to inform your decisions, what do you use? Intuition?

I battered down my GP's door to get DD vaccinated last year and this year. A friend of the family's perfectly healthy 2yo died from it last year and i refused to take any chance.

Why did you vaccinate twice? Did you not think last year's one worked?

I'd smoothe Leonie's furrowed brow if she could actually learn to construct a logical argument based on some kind of scientific evidence. Rather than just responding with some kind of unexplained 'I can't be bothered' emoticon. I still don't understand what the concern is about immunising children with already diagnosed autism.

There is plenty of evidence from less developed countries that measles kills. If it doesn't kill, it can leave children brain damaged and/or deaf. I've seen it first hand in Ethiopia. Parents there know exactly what a killer measles is and what a life-saver vaccines are.

I sure hope that Leonie's children benefit from herd immunity because having autism is challenging enough; having autism and being deaf I'd imagine would be even more of a challenge. A misplaced belief in the unimmunised immune system to fight off infection (based on WHAT evidence I'd like to know) is not seen in countries where immunisation rates are low (and breastfeeding rates high). Anecdotal evidence is not scientific evidence by the way.

petelly, not everybody believes what scientists say. Scientists disagree with each other. Even many nurses didn't take the swine flu vaccine, because they didn't believe what they were told and they thought it was risky.

Not everyone believes those scientists who tell us there is man-made global warming, when we are experiencing the coldest winter since 1910. Scientists can be wrong.

Those who don't take the vaccines have usually looked into it more than those who accept what they are told.