to wonder how on earth working mums manage, both financially and mentally/physically?

[superv1xen]

by financially, i mean mums who are on minimum to average wage mostly.

i would love to go back to work, my DC are 18 mo and 4.6 but i honestly don't know how people do it. if i worked in the day i would have to pay for childcare and also juggle taking the DC to school / childminder, getting both kids ready and myself presentable for work, then get to work, do a days work then pick up the kids. and i am unlikely to get a job that pays much more than minimum wage, especially in the current climate. and after we have paid childcare i doubt i would have much change from my salary.

the other option would be to work evenings or weekends but i couldnt do that because after a day doing chores ie laundry, tidying, cleaning, school run, sorting the kids out etc i am as knackered as if i have done a full day at work (which i have really!) and couldnt imagine having to go out at night to work when all i want to do is collapse in front of the telly. i would just be exhausted. and if i worked weekends i would miss dp too much as thats our "quality time" as he works all week and is out of the house 12 hours a day in the week.

it isnt a criticism of working mums BTW, i honestly admire anyone who does it, i just dont know how they do it! :o

I don't manage. I earn £140 a week, my parents look after the kids two days a week. I don't do a good job at work or as a mother, or as a wife.

BOTH partners have to do their fair share, IME.

Chores and childcare have to be split.

DH and I have swapped shifts and will do again.

Your little 'quality time' has to take a backseat when the wolf's howling at the door.

It's not an option for a lot of people, it's just what you do and you split the jobs up and get on with it.

The first 5 years you are crippled by childcare costs. That is just a part of working motherhood that you have to accept.

Long term however it is FAR better for you having remained working than giving up for 5 years. That much is very clear to me.

Um, by making your partner do his fair share of the chores?

Financially - I don't make much in a day after paying nursery fees, but I make a bit, and I make enough in a month that we couldn't survive without it. We do only have one child though. We don't want any more, but if we did, we couldn't afford it until DS was in school, as we couldn't afford two lots of nursery fees, or for one of us not to work.

I'm at home Mondays and Tuesdays, and those days I get up with DS and do all of his stuff (he generally wakes around 5.30am). Weds-Friday, it's DH's turn. He gets up with him, washes him, dresses him and makes his breakfast, then takes him to nursery at about 7.45. I just get up and go to work. DH either goes on from the nursery to work meetings etc, or comes back and works from home, depending on his schedule.

DH also picks up DS from nursery at the end of the day. DS is our child, not mine, and we make decisions about things like that based on who it's easier for, not just because I'm the mum.

GetOrfMoiLand - that is true in the UK. The economics of mothers (second earners) working vary wildly from one country to another, depending significantly on the level of state subsidy for childcare and the taxes levied on second earners.

op you are right - it's a total bloody nightmare - I don't manage to do it!! I fail all the time as a Mum and as an employee. If you can NOT go back to work then don't till they are older.

Sorry to sound glum - having a bad day here!

I'm not on minimum wage but over 2/3 of my take home wage goes on childcare.

I work about 20 hours a week out of the home.

The pros of working:

• the house is less messy with the children and DH out of it for the bulk of the day
• even a little money extra is money that helps
• if you're both working then the household load gets shared a bit more equally.
• I maintain my professional status and qualifications and enjoy working. Mostly!

The cons:

• it is knackering, especially the manic mornings. I've been up and not stopped for 2 hours by the time I get to work at 0830. Then I get home at 1830 and don't sit down again until about 2030.
• you do have to be incredibly organised. I put washing on before I leave the house, hoover whilst dinner is cooking, clean the loo whilst the kids are in the bath, stuff like that.

There is little to be gained from feeling pangs at never picking your children up from school, frankly.

i collected dd from school once a week (in the industry I am in, everyone works half day Friday).

I am lucky in that I am at the other end, dd has had no ill effect from having a FT working mother. She has grown up knowing that I have work committenst and I think it has been beneficial rather than having any detrimental effect.

Also, I have a DP now, so we all share the chores equally, DD included. So is easier than when dd was a baby and I was on my own.

You HAVE to share chores as much as you can otherwie you will build up resentment. But then I also think it is equally as crucial to share the financial burden as well. And I would think that your DP on 22K, it is pretty important that you try to get a job so the financial responsibility and stress isn't solely on your DP's shoulders.

Yes Bonsoir I think I have read that in France the taxation makes it very difficult for second earners to make it pay (iirc)

God working full time while someone else deals with your toddlers incessant demands for attention, whining, tantrums and changes and feeds the baby for you; only ever having to feed your children at weekends; getting someone else to do the bulk of the potty training for you, it sounds like bliss to me!!!

I'm not sure.

We're out of the house by 7.30am, demanding job, cooking, dcs' homework, bed, packed lunches, tidying & then start prep/marking until 11pm. To fit other things in, something has to give, usually sleep!

Am on mat leave though now and it's been a blessed rest! Will be interesting throwing a baby into the mix once I go back to work < wobbles >

I never even contemplated having a 2nd child.

So all my experience is based on having the one child - god knows what happens when you have 2!

In France, if your husband or wife is a higher rate tax payer and you need to purchase childcare in order to work, you are unlikely to make a profit unless you are earning serious money (which probably means you are doing lots of overseas travel, nights away etc... so yet more costs and sacrifices involved).

Hence a very low second marriage rate among higher earners! Lots of divorces and then lots of people shacked up together but not remarried - it makes great childcare and tax sense to be divorced here.

freddie - your description sounds like a lot of bosses i've had.

kangaroo - maternity leave is a dream. unfortunately my husband says i can't have any more children just so i can have some more.

enjoy it whilst it lasts.

FindingaManager you could be me! (without the second child on the way though).

I am 38 and had an amzaing time in my 20s and early 30s, partying, travelling and progressing my career - ended up on secondment to Africa for 3 months which was incredible.

I work FT, DD is 2.3 and I work as i am the main breadwinner, work flexitime with understanding employers and truly enjoy my job.
DP also works very hard but he is self-employed and has been since 2005, so bsuiness is still in start up really, income-wise.

Yes, mornings are hectic and I often feel guilty for hurrying DD with her breakfast and I rarely sit down before 9pm, if at all, but DP shares chores and nursery pick ups, we live in a fairly messy house but I don't care as I'd rather spend time with DD after work/at weekends.

Being organised the night before works for me, as does online shopping and banking.

I am also lucky to get 25 days holiday and 10 days flexi plus bank hols every year, so I try to take at least a day off every month to spend with DD.

When on mat leave, I couldn't imagine getting breafast sorted before 9.30am, but then when you have to, you just do it I think. At weekends we struggle to get going and I think, how do we manage it in the week! It's all about obligations and what has to be done I think.

And surely once LOs are at school properly, you have to get out of the house all sorted by 8/8.30ish, whether SAHP or WP?

I hate having to work, I earn just enough to pay the mortgage and nursery with £10 left over at the end of the month, but unfortnately it's neccessary in our household... really dreading mat leave finishing in Feb!

I know there is little to be gained from the pangs - it doesn't mean they aren't there though.

I'm happy to work FT don't get me wrong, and I'm happy to have used our amazing childminder. But still it just gets me - the thought of not being there after school for years & years & years! I do trust that when that time comes, other great after school childcare facilities will reveal themselves to me. Working a couple of short days might be an option that would mean I could be there a couple of day a week & CM can do the other three. I'd be happy with that.

V1xen - we are the same, DP on low 20s wage, my wage after tax and childcare is a NEGATIVE number. Lop that figure off DPs wage and there is not enough to pay the bills. (and we are not exactly living in the lap of luxury we scrape by with a bit of tax credit help)

So I stay at home.

it really annoys me when people say that staying at hone is a luxury. Sometimes there is as little choice to not work as there is to work.

"otchayaniye - is it really economically more advantageous for the two of you to both work PT than to have one FT earner and one SAHP?"

It happens to be slightly, because my husband gets night pay so he gets more than half a salary. We are both journalists for global organizations so flexible in that it?s 24 hours and shift-based in some instances.

But it's not about economic reasons for us.

It?s about my husband wanting to share in the care of our daughter before she goes to school.

It?s about us both keeping a hand in our careers as we pass through the early years? stages. We could not leave and rejoin our organizations and we both enjoy our careers.

I?m possibly looking at private education probably abroad in the earlier years so that is another (not the main) factor in my wanting to keep my fairly well-paid job .

Also I have hermit tendencies so have doubts I would be that happy as a full-time SAHM. But am prepared to do it again if our circumstances change or foreign assignments don?t tee up successfully.

Plus, on the desk I am on there are lots of families and they are geared up for split shifts, earlies and part-time work. I don't want to lose that as it could mean a potential reduction in any need for CM or after-schools club time.

surely another advantage of Otchayaniye's way of doing it is that you will not be thrown into immediate crisis mode if a child or their carer is sick (because sick parents still get to look after the kids the way a sick nanny or CM won't.)

In the factory I worked in years ago, loads of the couples there worked opposite shifts (8-4, 4-12), so only had to organise childcare for the shift change.

Worked financially for a lot of people.

I understand, otchayaniye.

But I don't understand the sick carer/child argument. If my children are ill, I stay at home with them because I am a SAHM. DP and his exW don't have that option.

I do it because I have to.

I have three kids (9,6,3) and work full time in a demanding job. It's well paid but it's still hideously expensive to shell out for childcare and DS1 going to an independant school next year, only set to get worse.

DH and I share the load. We are at all the school functions, we do all the housework ourselves and have no family local.

We do it because we don't have a choice, it's bloody hard work (especially with three kids going in three different directions each day). Still it could be worse, I might not have a job and we'd not be able to pay the bills.