AIBU to hate the line "why should people on housing benefit live in homes that working people can't afford?"

[standupandbecounted]

"Why should people on housing benefit live in houses that working people could not afford?"

I keep seeing this line being thrown about in the media. Along with stories about families, usually with an average of eight kids, claiming a shocking level of housing benefit.The government is going to cap housing benefit to prevent this. Reasonable, but not the whole story.
A a less publicised proposal is to drop the level of Local Housing Allowance(LHA) from the 50th centile to the 30th centile.Local housing allowance is currently set at the median-middle value- of private rents in your local area. In my area the LHA is nowhere near the proposed cap. The maximum I can claim for a 2 bedroom property (I have 2 kids) is 126.92 per week. For a three bedroom it is £150 per week. Shelter have estimate that the average loss for a for a two bedroom tenant in my area will be £12 per week.( I assume this is based on predicted rent levels)
Loss per area here

I am renting a two bedroom flat for myself and two children, aged 18 months and 5. There is no outdoor space, it is not large and not in an exclusive area. The soundproofing is poor and the tenants upstairs are fond of partying way into the early hours. Hardly luxury housing that working people can't afford. I believe this myth about HB claimants living in the best properties does not represent the reality for the majority of us. I have tried to find somewhere better but most landlords will not take HB or children. I have put my name down on the waiting list for council housing but have been awarded thr lowest priority level. I will never get one with that banding.

The thing that upsets me most is the "working people" bit, a lot of HB claimants ARE working people! Housing benefit is also available to people who don't earn enough to cover their rent. Most low income people cannot access council housing anymore. They are forced to rent on the private market, where rents are to high to be affordable on low incomes. This is the case in most areas, not just London.

So, AIBU to feel angry that people on housing benefit are being misrepresented and subjected to unfair cuts?

"mobiles, SKY, cars, nights out, fags, holidays abroad, all things people who dont work think they are entitled to"

Some might think that. But I doubt most do, especially as if you don't work there is a limited supply of money, which couldn't afford all of that without cutting out things like bills, food etc.

Kaloki what about those of us who can't afford to pay off a mortgage, people keep skipping over that argument.. The majority of people who get pissed off about others having a home paid for- can't afford their own. Also people in council housing will get the chance to buy their home one day at a heavily discouted rate. I'll still be without a house and as I won't have a pension to speak up I sure have to hope there is some money left over for me when I am an OAP or its catfood on toast for me and DH.

"mobiles, SKY, cars, nights out, fags, holidays abroad, all things people who dont work think they are entitled to"

But I can't afford that in this duel-income family! Admittedly I have a £10 PAYG phone which was bought 3 years ago which I always have on me for emergencies, but out of that list the only other thing I could claim is that we spent a week in a caravan in Wales in 2007.

All this smug "you're all sheep, look around you at what the politicians are doing" - how's that going to make me feel better when I visit my sister and her neighbour - two complete opposites if ever there was one. Sister's DH and she work about 80 hrs between them, her (younger) neighbour with a much better furnished house and never worked a day in her life with 2 more kids than my sister. It's just totally the wrong way around, and to have it rubbed in so explicitly is awful. I may read about some bent politician, but I don't have to eat dinner with him, do I?

theevildead I think people are getting too many different things confused.

Being on HB isn't the same as having a council house.
Paying a mortgage isn't the same as renting.

As for buying council houses, they are planning on stopping that now aren't they? Seeing as they will be reassessing council housing. Also, if you are on HB and in council housing, you still can't buy as HB can't be used for mortgages. So you'd still have to be working to be able to afford a mortgage.

Most on HB are in the same position as you. If they are on HB as they aren't working then their HB will be cut down further after a set amount of time, if they are on the same level of HB for a long time now it is because they are disabled.

frgr Neither can those on benefits! Unless there are getting extra money from somewhere else.

frgr - it's not fair, no. We're on a pretty damn good joint income but can't really afford to have more than one DC. I am very, very bitter about that.

But we need to be looking at how the fuck we got to the point where 2 adults on good salaries struggle. Why is housing (rented or bought) so bloody expensive, for a start.

House prices need to drop before rent is controlled,otherwise there will be a dearth of private rentals due to no-one being willing to rent out at a loss.

I am not going to start bashing anybody.

I think the housing system in this country stinks. And trying to remedy one area of it requires total change in legislation.

• it is ridiculous that such a large proportion of private housing is in the hands of private individuals, and the tenancy laws are weighted in the favour of the landlord, NOT fpr the benefit of the tenant (and I say this as a landlord of one flat). Lots of private landlords have insurance which means that you cannot rent to people in receipt of benefits. This stinks. In otehr countries (in which renting is not seen as a stigma) housing is owned by large corporations and the laws are fairer to renters.

• we have so little counci housing now, and the little we have left is rented by people who don't need it. My mum lives in a 3 bed housing association house for £63 a week rent. She lives there on her own. In an ideal world she should be given notice and her house given to a family. BUT then she would be at the mercy of the private rentals, and there are little 1 bed housing association flats which she could be offered.

Kaloki I realize they are all different things but to me are part of the same system. People don't get het up about the average person or couple getting a helping hand. I know people on HB (one couple, both work and have a baby on the way too, in a one bed flat) they won't be getting any additinal help apparenlty. And I think its unfair as they really can't afford to move and both work very hard.

I think people get angry that it seems to benefit the people who don't want to work or the people who seems best able to "play" the system by intentionally making themselves homeless etc (and yes, people DO THIS. I know some of them).

For our system to work you need people like me to do the grunt work in crappy call centre and shop jobs.. on low wages. But we shouldn't be punished for trying to keep ourselves afloat. I just want a help on the housing ladder. I don't want it paid for me but the shared ownership scheme would be a god send it really would

We really do need to look at why housing is so expensive. The government has done nothing to make housing more affordable for the working poor. All they are doing is cutting housing benefit.At the end of the day when people like me are homeless or worse off the working poor going to be no better off. Nothing is being done to alleviate the housing crisis in this country that many people on an average salary are the victims of.

Also those on HB are not in a great situation either, no security of tenure, no access to council housing. When they start work housing benefit drops off leaving you no better off than when you were not working.With rents being so high I would have to earn a high wage to be any better off than I am now. Poverty trap. If I could access council housing and have affordable rent I may be able to get out of the poverty trap.I'm not a player of the system and I am trying to get a job.Very depressing that I will be no better off.

Dh is working 15 hour days at the moment and we get some top up HB. This should end within 18 months now (the top up, not the wrokin! Couldn;t see dh ever stopping wotk as long as he is able).

We have a garden but that's becuase we top up the rent from earned income, it's not considered essential (and with the autistic kids parks etc are simple no no's- it's never broken down to such neat boxes but you could argue it's valid use for the DLA).

the area is quite nice but this is the house we lived in well before top ups, and in fact area doesn;t represent everything- house hasn;t been decorated since 1970's batting painting we do, leaks around doors so always freezing, no double glaxing etc. Not a complaint- we could move- but does reduce house renta value overall.

80% of people who get HB are not unemployed. That makes it an issue with liveanle wages and affordable housing rather than the perceived work ethic problem.

I'm unsure about the shared ownership scheme - it's the only way we will ever be able to afford to buy, but I see it as a bit of a racket, supporting the inflated housing market. Because by saying for example 'you can buy 50% of this flat for £250,000 and rent the other 50%' it supports the value of the flat being, allegedly, £500,000 even if a couple on the average income in that area would never buy it at that price. So it stops the prices from crashing because people on lower incomes can buy in to the market, but get less for their money. To me the shared ownership scheme skews the market even further in favour of those who already own property.

I agree with you becstar about the shared ownership scheme.

Just making additional profit for the developers and banks whilst dressed up as helping people on low salaries.

Becstarlit you are right, and when my husband and I have looked in to the scheme that was what put us off it. Most houses seemed to work in about 25-50 percent more expensive than their neighbours... But because of peole's desperation they still sell out. Also most required a fairly high income in the first place, which only meant people who didn't need the help were getting it to buy even bigger houses than they needed for an inflated price.

But I can see if it was tweaked to help those under 50,000 combined income to get a start with a small home and at a real "price" I think it would be awesome

salary limits vay enormously- and take things like how many people in family, any disability etc into consideration.

Yanbu. When I look at what people can actually claim on benefits (especially single people with no children) I don't know how they survive.

We used to have a shared ownership house until we outgrw it (we didn;t get HB or move into a HA house before anyone shouts LOL- both working at the time. Well, many disagree and that's their choice but I don;t consider myself the same as choice-not-working when I am a carer- but back then I had employed working).

It was OK, although still expensive- neighbour's hosue had huge structural issues but HA woudln;t help, just wanted to benefit from 50% of the improved value after work done. Still, it was secure housing.

We'd love to get back into shared ownership one day, I should be a key worker by then so an option perhaps.

There are lots of people who live in HA or council properties who work and do not receive housing benefit, or any kind of benefits at all. Please get that straight.

The things that annoy me are the 6 bedroom houses for those with 10 or more children with neither parent working. There are quite afew around here, and it just seems completely unfair.

Most of the shard ownership deals are a bit of a con

Yes YABU.

me too, hairy. I was on benefits 10 years ago, as a single parent with a baby, so financially a bit better off than a single childess person. I went back to work when he was a year old (PT, subbed by TCs so still on benefits really) and I was way, way better off. Being on benefits was utterly crap - I have no idea how people manage to do it for years on end without falling to pieces.

I'm surviving (barely) on HB and TC's whilst my business gets off the ground and if people are really that bothered about it they are welcome to my house! It is damp, draughty, leaks a lot and I cannot afford the oil for the central heating! When the weather was really bad a couple of weeks ago it got down to -4 in my bedroom!!! I slept with my DS and the dog for warmth!

Rocky12 "So, if you are living in a 1 bed flat with one child - no intention of working and you had three more children the council wouldnt move you????

I dont think so..."

No the council will not always move you.I knew a couple who were living in a 1 bed council flat with a child for 3 years until they saved the deposit for private rented. That was the London Borough of Redbridge which will take 34 years to clear it's current waiting list.They were working on a low income. 1.7 million families are on housing lists and many families with children are waiting years in temporary accomadation (shelter.org statistics)
So no, it's not just as simple as pumping out a few kids and hey presto a council house.

yanbu
we are on HB hopefully short term.
we live in a HA house, cos we have to (disabled access)
the goverment want the MC to hate us, so when they make us all go to the work house no one will give a shit.

Just to reiterate-

Shelter figures (so not Labour party etc)

80% of people claiming HB not on unemployment benefits.

Some of the remainder will be elderly, carers or disabled but then we are assuming the choice word has gone anyway. And for me at least it's hard to moralise when there are absences of choice. In fact I find it quite ahrd to moralilse about most joblessness atm given the rise in figurees out today put down to analysts to cuts in civil services- can hardly blame someone for that surely?- very long term or never worked being clearly different.

Shared hosuing may be a rip off in some ways but IME you can't put a price on security of tenure, choice of where to live and basic pride. And flexibility too- self financed rented / owned / shared all allow you to move about for work, whereas the restrictions on access to LHA homes prevets it (I know Goernment are reviewing that).