AIBU to hate the line "why should people on housing benefit live in homes that working people can't afford?"

[standupandbecounted]

"Why should people on housing benefit live in houses that working people could not afford?"

I keep seeing this line being thrown about in the media. Along with stories about families, usually with an average of eight kids, claiming a shocking level of housing benefit.The government is going to cap housing benefit to prevent this. Reasonable, but not the whole story.
A a less publicised proposal is to drop the level of Local Housing Allowance(LHA) from the 50th centile to the 30th centile.Local housing allowance is currently set at the median-middle value- of private rents in your local area. In my area the LHA is nowhere near the proposed cap. The maximum I can claim for a 2 bedroom property (I have 2 kids) is 126.92 per week. For a three bedroom it is £150 per week. Shelter have estimate that the average loss for a for a two bedroom tenant in my area will be £12 per week.( I assume this is based on predicted rent levels)
Loss per area here

I am renting a two bedroom flat for myself and two children, aged 18 months and 5. There is no outdoor space, it is not large and not in an exclusive area. The soundproofing is poor and the tenants upstairs are fond of partying way into the early hours. Hardly luxury housing that working people can't afford. I believe this myth about HB claimants living in the best properties does not represent the reality for the majority of us. I have tried to find somewhere better but most landlords will not take HB or children. I have put my name down on the waiting list for council housing but have been awarded thr lowest priority level. I will never get one with that banding.

The thing that upsets me most is the "working people" bit, a lot of HB claimants ARE working people! Housing benefit is also available to people who don't earn enough to cover their rent. Most low income people cannot access council housing anymore. They are forced to rent on the private market, where rents are to high to be affordable on low incomes. This is the case in most areas, not just London.

So, AIBU to feel angry that people on housing benefit are being misrepresented and subjected to unfair cuts?

Standup - YANBU to be pissed off at the media representation of HB recipients' living conditions. I think you'll find little sympathy on MN, however, as many have not been in that situation and have only headlines to go by.

Housing in this country is shocking but then you go to Naples and see people living on the side of a live volcano which could erupt at any moment. They all work and consider the tiny flats home, we are very lucky.

Another way of tackling the problem of greedy landlords would be rent controls. Why isn't that happening?

That's coming in the form of housing benefit cuts, people can't pay what they haven't got, it'll push rents down for everyone.

Divide and Rule. You're not all falling for it are you.....?

I think one of the issues is that people are often entitled to larger houses the more children they have. There is no thought given to whether they can afford any more so you have people living in three/four bedroom houses and not paying a penny for them - we are!!

If I decided to have more than 2 children would someone come along and help me move into a bigger house because 'I was entitled'. If I lost my job would 'someone' pay my mortgage until I found another one and help me to pay the bills.

I have no issue with anyone having as many children as they like, work, dont work - I dont mind. However I should not be expected to pick up the bill. Until there are consequences to having more children ie you need to stay in a 2 bed house regardless of how many children you have then this will go on and on.

And, no I dont believe someone sitting on their backsides not working should live in a better and bigger place than people who are working

You can only control market forces and the rents will be set at what people will/can pay.
Inflation, housing benefit cuts, not a good time to be a landlord.

I agree with everything Prolesworth has said.

Rocky12 - I think the system is still in place to pick up the pieces if you fall on hard times.

The greedy landlords like Tony Blair for example, it's a right mess if you ask me.

CristinaTheAstonishing "I think you'll find little sympathy on MN, however, as many have not been in that situation and have only headlines to go by."

I grew up in an area where benefits abuse was rife. My sister still lives near home, as does my brother - MOST of her friends are on some form of benefits and fulltime workers are a minority. I haven't been to the house of anyone claiming fulltime disability legit, and I wouldn't begrudge that at all - but I do with the fact that wages are being stretched due to govt influence in the housing market forcing workers out! My sister and her DH works (him especially, outside, more hours than I do - last time I asked it was about 50 hours a week he was doing). And the fact is that I have SEEN the sort of housing getting benefit top ups gets you - it is better than the housing DH and I could afford. In 2 cases, it's a damn sight better than what we have NOW, after working so hard to get a house with - shock horror - a garden, which most of the people where I'm from are surprised we don't have. The idea of stringing kids clothes from bathroom ropes in some shitty flat doesn't enter into their reality.

So forgive me if I have a skewed, first hand perception of what's happening in this country with benefit claimants vs. the working poor.

Why do people start to talk about workhouses.... We are NEVER going to go back to Victorian times so why make such statements.

If people arent working why are they living in expensive areas? I agree re K&C. There are some very run down estates. However for those of you who know the area well, Westfield Shopping Centre one of the most luxurious shopping centres in the UK has provided great opportunities for people living in the area work wise.

I wondered how the family in a 2 million pound house fronted up their deposit? Because I thought even if you claim HB you have to have a deposit of a month and a month in advance?

Rocky they wouldn't pay for a bigger house if you had more kids, but I thnk you can get 2 years mortgage interest paid if you lose your job. I think.

"why should..."

"personally I..."

"I/DH would never..."

They're all phrases that regulalry precede someone being horribly smug and generallly utterly naive.

On the subject of housing costs - proles has said it all for me. Thanks, prolie!

Actually I agree with the sentiment 'why should people on HB have a better home than those that work?'. Why should they?

Perhaps if renting was cheaper house prices would fall too?

People pretend to be stupid.
What is better - a 3bed rented house paid by HB but if the landlord fancys to evict you you are in shit because most landlords dont want families on HB OR a 2 bed flat that you own, you decorate it as you like and when you are old you will have something?
A 10 yrs old can see which scenario is better.

I 've lived in rented and in mercy of landlords with my stuff permenantely in boxes in friends' garages and i lived in my own house. I lived poor and i lived comfortable. Despite the mortgage and the high tax i know which life i prefer. At least i'm honest i don't pretend to envy those who are worst than me. All this bitterness does my head in. Every morning i thank my lucky stars for what i've got and wish strength for those who don't.

OP YANBU.

I wondered how the family in a 2 million pound house fronted up their deposit? Because I thought even if you claim HB you have to have a deposit of a month and a month in advance?

If you were a landlord and were prepared to accept housing benefit on your £2 million house you'd be getting a back hander somewhere along the lines or you'd inflate the rent to cover your expected losses.

Maybe that has that better home before they lost their job?

In practical terms, I don't think forcing people to end their tenancies early and move into cheaper housing (if indeed there is any cheaper housing available) is a good way to go. Particularly if, say, the period of unemployment is a fairly brief one.

My friend is on HB. Lives in a far nicer house than mine in a better area. I don't begrudge her that though - and besides, in 15 years time I will own my house - chances are she'll still be moving from home to home on a landlord's whim. If there was sufficient affordable and/or social housing around, she wouldn't need HB.

x-post with Laquitar. It amazes me that people just cannot see this.

Could rent control work in the really expensive areas of the country eg London? The rents are so high compared to average wage in the area... I guess you could ban landlords from raising them by more than a certain % or more than a certain number of times. But could you just slash rents and tell landlords 'you can't charge more than this for this property' based on affordability for average working people? Who would go around the properties to decide how much they were worth and tell the landlords to charge that? I'd be up for anything that made our rent affordable, but I just can't see how it would be administered and enforced. Or how they'd catch up with the landlords. I can never get hold of mine, the govt would have similar difficulties I'm sure.

I can appreciate the sentiment expressed by the OP because many people on HB are very badly off, but having worked my whole life and paying almost all my money for the only shitty accommodation I could afford, it's not a bed of roses for people not living on HB generally either. For 3 years DH, DD1 and I lived on £140 per week - we both worked over 60 hours per week and once we haid paid our rent and childcare, that was what was left for all our bills, food etc.
In contrast, my teenage cousin (living with parents) has a baby by an erstwhile boyfriend, goes to the council and is given £350 per week HB. Hers is not a one-off either - I know of quite a few just within my own circle of friends and relatives who have been given more than I could have ever afforded for the first ten years of my working life.
I think we are all sensible enough to know that the sensationalised stories of multi-million pound houses for Nigerian immigrants and their families of 10 are dredged up to scandalise 'Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells', but while these may be rare stories there are plenty of people on HB who are far better off than their non-HB counterparts. You can't blame people who don't receive benefits from feeling hard done by when they work hard and just watch their wages spreading ever more thinly.