AIBU to hate the line "why should people on housing benefit live in homes that working people can't afford?"

[standupandbecounted]

"Why should people on housing benefit live in houses that working people could not afford?"

I keep seeing this line being thrown about in the media. Along with stories about families, usually with an average of eight kids, claiming a shocking level of housing benefit.The government is going to cap housing benefit to prevent this. Reasonable, but not the whole story.
A a less publicised proposal is to drop the level of Local Housing Allowance(LHA) from the 50th centile to the 30th centile.Local housing allowance is currently set at the median-middle value- of private rents in your local area. In my area the LHA is nowhere near the proposed cap. The maximum I can claim for a 2 bedroom property (I have 2 kids) is 126.92 per week. For a three bedroom it is £150 per week. Shelter have estimate that the average loss for a for a two bedroom tenant in my area will be £12 per week.( I assume this is based on predicted rent levels)
Loss per area here

I am renting a two bedroom flat for myself and two children, aged 18 months and 5. There is no outdoor space, it is not large and not in an exclusive area. The soundproofing is poor and the tenants upstairs are fond of partying way into the early hours. Hardly luxury housing that working people can't afford. I believe this myth about HB claimants living in the best properties does not represent the reality for the majority of us. I have tried to find somewhere better but most landlords will not take HB or children. I have put my name down on the waiting list for council housing but have been awarded thr lowest priority level. I will never get one with that banding.

The thing that upsets me most is the "working people" bit, a lot of HB claimants ARE working people! Housing benefit is also available to people who don't earn enough to cover their rent. Most low income people cannot access council housing anymore. They are forced to rent on the private market, where rents are to high to be affordable on low incomes. This is the case in most areas, not just London.

So, AIBU to feel angry that people on housing benefit are being misrepresented and subjected to unfair cuts?

Oh and if you really want to get worked up who owns those houses in central london and do they pay proper tax? Or they play the system with duel recidency and spreading money and properties across the world ? Bigger fishes....

But Laquitar, this isn't a comparison of 'people renting on HB' vs 'people who have mortgage on a flat/house'. It's a comparison of 'people renting on HB' vs. 'people who rent privately, aren't entitled to HB and work all hours to pay the rent, and can't afford to buy a place'.

We rent privately. We can't decorate the place, we live with broken appliances and leaky roof until the landlord sorts it or pay for it ourselves and beg her to reimburse us. If we don't pay rent we're out on our arse, and don't have anywhere to go. We won't 'have something' when we're old because all our money goes on rent, and we can't afford to save for a pension or save for a deposit to buy somewhere. Sometimes I've gone without lunch for a few weeks to ensure there's enough money to pay the rent.

I'm not pretending to be stupid. Could a 10 year old really look at our situation renting 2 bed flat on insecure freelance income vs. situation of friend in lovely 3 bed house in nice area on HB and know which was better (and think it was us!)?

YABU. None of us are entitled to anything on God's green earth.

You are assuming Laquatr that normal working couple can all AFFORD to own their own home. I can't so no, I can do nothing to personalise my home.. I can't paint or hang pictures. Council housing you can change the carpets, paint etc and I belive many people are even given a bit of money to decorate a bit at first.

I can't forsee how rents will fall in my area as I am competing for property with city workers (young professionals)and rich overseas students and house sharers.

The government are being very successful with getting everyone backbiting and sniping at each other.

If people were paid an adequate wage, if social housing had not been sold off and a propery coherent housing policy (not left to the market) was in place we wouldn't be in this position.

This why should I pay for argument I think is quite small minded and pointless because it can be used by everyone about anything and has no end to it.

A government is elected (in this case not by the majority) and they decide how to spend our money in the best way they see fit guided by their political ideology.

Instead of sniping about others who appear to be better off than you then how about getting angry and politicised about the state of housing in this country and other structural things that might have caused these individual issues.

Or get angry at the businesess who get away with paying the lowest wage or the corporate tax avoiders. Or consider why generations of people don't work - not just a knee jerk reaction to it - but really why - perhaps they are poorly educated - there seems to be alot of people in this country who have low aspirations - is this their fault or the fault of the education system, the class system (prob a combination of all three)

FWIW I am a hard working individual, earning an above average salary in a modest rented property which still costs alot of money however I do qualify for a small amount of housing benefit which I am grateful for. I struggle with money (am a single parent.

No social housing or affordable rental for me as Im deemed to be adequately housed. The fact we could be asked to leave with one months notice matters to no-one except me!

Well if you rent and you are not entitled to HB then that will be because you earn more than OP

perhaps the min wage should be put upo to say 10-15 pounds an hour and other benifits scrapped.

if compnays can survive on paying people a living wage tehn there no really viable businesses imo.

Yes Laquitar, we earn more than someone on HB. And cannot afford the housing that some of them (not all, but an expensive minority of them) can afford and have less disposable income than some of them. Yes, that doesn't make sense. That's the whole problem!

We have a combined income of 30,000 ish pounds. One baby on the way so thay wage will drop significatnly. We live in the South East and can just about afford to manage now. It doesnt matter what your income is though... if you home is paid for! We will never afford a house we will always rent and spend most of our income on rent.

I'd like the gov to spend money on helping working poor on to the property ladder with small loans, the house share scheme is great except in our area you have to make more than we have and there is a huge shortage of homes availabel.

What is the salary limit to qualify for HB? Or does it depend on the area? Would you get HB if income was £20k with 2 kids for example?

So, if you are living in a 1 bed flat with one child - no intention of working and you had three more children the council wouldnt move you????

I dont think so...

purits
"The HB problem is a chicken-and-egg situation. The more the Govt gives in HB, then the higher the rent, then the higher the HB bill, etc etc.
It might hurt now while we go through readjustment (so HB encourages rents to come down, not go up) but it will reduce the cost of housing for everyone eventually so that has got to be a good thing."

While I agree with you on most of that, I do take issue with "it might hurt now". I assume from that you aren't reliant on HB to pay for a roof over your head? Because "it might hurt a bit" is a serious understatement.

Bearing in mind that at the moment it is already hard enough to find properties which are within the amount allocated by LHA, dropping the LHA is going to make it impossible. And that's without taking into account how many landlord's refuse to take on HB tenants in the first place.

I would say that out of all the landlords I have approached recently (a lot) about 90% of them do not take on HB tenants. So I'm not sure how reducing LHA will actually lower rents for any but about 10% of landlords? And even those are doubtful, as they are usually not too fussed about not getting HB tenants.

becstarlitsea, i don't know much about benefits but i thought those who work only receive part of their rent. And to be entitled for that means that they are on low wages. So, low wages+pay part of the rent=not much disposable income. Yours must be higher even if is very little higher. I 'm not trying to argue, i'm genuinenly

What is the limit for HB?

I think those that can become really pissed off, are those who do not earn huge amounts but earn just too much not to receive any help.
Many of these families are very stretched indeed.

Something that really does need to be taken into account, a lot of landlords how do take on HB tenants (IME) are the less, erm, nice landlords. And unfortunately on HB you can't be very picky. Which means you tend to get stuck in fairly dodgy accommodation.

I see it from both sides.

We have many friends who in London are earning roughtly £50k family income and are not entitled to benefits. They live in 2 bed flats, and pay the mortgage. They will not be entitled to any housing benefit however many children they have.

Familys on housing benefit have previously been able to claim huge amounts in London (some claiming £2500 per week), and even now £400 a week will cover a 4/5 bed house in outer London. This level of rent (much less than some have previousy been claiming) would require £20k of post tax salary to cover it.

Those on housing benefit don't have to have 3 children to a bedroom, or have children of different genders over 10 years old sharing - those working in London, on say a family salary of £40k-60k, with childcare costs might not be in that position.

"Divide and Rule. You're not all falling for it are you.....?"

Hook line and sinker blutac.

It makes me want to scream!

Sheep!

OP is NBU but I am horribly bitter about some people who do get lovely houses for nothing.

We own our house and we worked hard to get it and pay the mortgage, i study full time and DH works full time but on a low wage (15k) i love my house and am very grateful to have it but i would be lying if i said it doesn't piss me off that there are people who get the same house as me on my street for nothing.

Here's the crux though mumnwlondon

"They live in 2 bed flats, and pay the mortgage."

They are paying off a mortgage. One day that flat will be theirs, they are not subject to the whim of a letting agent/landlord.

"Those on housing benefit don't have to have 3 children to a bedroom, or have children of different genders over 10 years old sharing"

In theory this is true. In practise it doesn't necessarily work like that. If it's HB then in theory they could find somewhere bigger to rent privately. That is, if they can find anywhere that will take them on, and if they can find anywhere which is under the amount of HB they are entitled to.

If it's council housing then they will more likely be on a long waiting list, and unless they are actually homeless they are quite likely to remain in a smaller property as they will not have enough points. Even if they are homeless there is a chance they will be expected to stay in temporary accommodation indefinitely as the council can then say they are housed.

Really like the idea of helping the working poor - more of the house share scheme would be great.

Some posters have talked about a living wage, when I was growing up the expectation with two parents working that you would have TV and perhaps a black and white one, if you lived in London cars were not always a necessity. Now, people's expectations are far higher, mobiles, SKY, cars, nights out, fags, holidays abroad, all things people who dont work think they are entitled to. If you choose not to work these should be considered luxury items. My father moved the whole family to London to get better prospects, some people choose to stay where they are and then complain there are no jobs or that they dont fit into their child care.

I used to work in social services (children & families). Two large families (one with 10 children, the other with 8) complained their houses were too small. Both had four bedrooms. The house the family with 10 children, the council had to buy two semi detached houses and knock them into one. It was totally re-decorated with all mod cons.
The family with 8 children got a new build six bedroomed house.
Both sets of parents did not work. Both complained that their children would still have to share a room with a sibling.