AIBU to hate the line "why should people on housing benefit live in homes that working people can't afford?"

[standupandbecounted]

"Why should people on housing benefit live in houses that working people could not afford?"

I keep seeing this line being thrown about in the media. Along with stories about families, usually with an average of eight kids, claiming a shocking level of housing benefit.The government is going to cap housing benefit to prevent this. Reasonable, but not the whole story.
A a less publicised proposal is to drop the level of Local Housing Allowance(LHA) from the 50th centile to the 30th centile.Local housing allowance is currently set at the median-middle value- of private rents in your local area. In my area the LHA is nowhere near the proposed cap. The maximum I can claim for a 2 bedroom property (I have 2 kids) is 126.92 per week. For a three bedroom it is £150 per week. Shelter have estimate that the average loss for a for a two bedroom tenant in my area will be £12 per week.( I assume this is based on predicted rent levels)
Loss per area here

I am renting a two bedroom flat for myself and two children, aged 18 months and 5. There is no outdoor space, it is not large and not in an exclusive area. The soundproofing is poor and the tenants upstairs are fond of partying way into the early hours. Hardly luxury housing that working people can't afford. I believe this myth about HB claimants living in the best properties does not represent the reality for the majority of us. I have tried to find somewhere better but most landlords will not take HB or children. I have put my name down on the waiting list for council housing but have been awarded thr lowest priority level. I will never get one with that banding.

The thing that upsets me most is the "working people" bit, a lot of HB claimants ARE working people! Housing benefit is also available to people who don't earn enough to cover their rent. Most low income people cannot access council housing anymore. They are forced to rent on the private market, where rents are to high to be affordable on low incomes. This is the case in most areas, not just London.

So, AIBU to feel angry that people on housing benefit are being misrepresented and subjected to unfair cuts?

No one said hostels should be shitty, dangerous places to live. Any civilised person would agree that they should be clean, comfortable and safe.

Its not about punishing people who have fallen on hard times, its about making provision for them without making it a DISincentive to work, for the people who could be working but choose not to.
And as I said, the responsible people who care about their Childrens welfare are not going to be the ones turning their noses up at food vouchers and a roof over their heads. If anyone does, it'll be the people who are pissed off that they have to buy fresh veg rather than a packet of fags

violet I'd be annoyed at food vouchers as they wont pay the bills, or pay for any non food items. Eg. transport.

Do you have children Kaloki?

No, I have health problems.

I wouldn't be annoyed at food vouchers if I needed food.

Other systems are already in place to pay certain bills for people on benefits eg rent/ council tax.

As for essential journeys eg to supermarket, by all means , introduce a system which ringfences the funds for that purpose.

Lets just stop throwing money at a crap situation, which just perpetuates the cycle of crapness and dependency

So how would you pay for water, electricity and gas? How about transport? Because there is nothing in place for those.

Systems can be put in place to pay essential bills. It's really not beyond the wit of man!
I pay all my utilities by direct debit out of my bank account. Surely it's not that hard to have a similar system, whereby the money for essential things is paid directly??

merry christmas

Tbh Violet, I wouldn't trust the government to do that anyway. They take long enough to get the other benefits sorted.
I think in theory it isn't that difficult, but it requires them to be organised and they just aren't. So it is beyond the wit of the benefits system

It also wouldn't cover those on meters, or as BrandyButterfly pointed out, grocers etc.

In theory it's a good idea, in practice there are too many other factors.

Which is exactly WHY the system needs reform. Because the system is crap and disorganised, and has reached a point where people are no better off or only marginally better off, by working, than if they don't.

Total simplification and reform needed. Which is starting to happen, but is long overdue.

Its Not about punishment. Its about being Encouraging personal responsibility, and treating people equitably, so that those who play by the rules, take responsibility for the children they create , and work hard, stop getting shafted for it

Countless Governments have tried to reform the system. Clearly it still remains better to pick a career which will earn you £50k and marry a wife or husband on £50k. The problem is the squeezed middle well well under that who are finding that they work dreadfully hard and get few tax reliefs or benefits and are sometimes worse off than those who don't work at all and get everything provided. There's an unfairness there and also there's the basic fact that we can't afford to pay what we have paid to date.

I am not even convinced the proposed reforms will do much good but we'll see. Capping housing benefit at £20,800 a year seems laughably high.

Totally agree Violet but I think they are going about it the wrong way. Rather than focussing on the mess on their end (eg. JSA departments refuse to speak to HB departments) they are focussing on putting the blame on claimants. When in fact most claimants are legitimately in need. It's easier to focus on the wrongful claims and use them as scapegoats for a system that is flawed, than examine the actual system.

Well when you think what £20,800 buys you in terms of mortage payments per year at the current interest rate, it does rather put it into perspective.

The Cap at £20,800 isn't applicable to all though. This website actually allows you to work out the cap for different areas and size of house. It also has the calculator to work out how many bedrooms a family is entitled to.

The system is being examined. And reformed. As xenia says, at long last HB is being capped. And if anyone is seriously suggesting over 20k isn't a high enough cap - that's knocking on £1800 every month- then perhaps they should set foot in the real world where people would have to work damn hard to pay a rent like that (plus of course all the bills that go with it!)

A calculator to work out the size of house and how many bedroom you are entitled to?

Thats simple. We have always been 'entitled to' the size of house and number of bedrooms we can afford to pay for. In whatever area the jobs are. Isn't that how real life works for most people?

Violet - the point is, most people are not "entitled to" anywhere near as much as the cap.

And as for entitled to what you can afford to pay for, that's great if you have enough money to afford anything at all. LHA is there for those who don't.

For example, without benefits I have an income of £0, which would afford me a cardboard box on the street, maybe. Hence needing LHA. But as the calculator proves, the amount I can get isn't all that much.

The poor will always be with us and yes we could all be in that position which is why most of us choose to live in a welfare state rather than countries without one BUT it remains the case that unfairnesses are there and that reform is necessary.

I have a good few times offered any mumsmnet poster the chance to sell various of my services on 10% commission and there must be a lot of other chances like that out there for people with an internet connection (it every mumsnetter) at least to try to earn some income. IDS is trying to reform the system so that getting a bit of money one week won't make things too hard with losing benefits. I don't think he's gone anything ilke as far as he could have done but that's another area to reform.