To wonder if these riots will change anything?

[poshsinglemum]

I think it's getting totally out of hand. I think that HE should be accesable but that's what the students loan company is for-no? i have no money; I have a student loan. When I start to earn enough again I shall continue to pay it back.
I have no problem with demos but attacking a car etc is not helping the cause.

Kittyfloss- terrorists use violence to achieve political ends through coercion. Terrorists are not just muslims in suicide jackets. I'm sure it's pretty frightening to have your window bashed in with a shovel/ witness this level of mindless and pointless vandalism - not to fellow protestors like you who presumably expected it would kick off, but to bystanders/ shoppers with small children caught in the Regent St/ Trafalgar Sq violence etc

However, I agree with your solution re shutting down University of Crapsville. Shame no government will ever have the guts to pursue it......regardless of political persuasion........can you imagine the riots ?

Kittyfloss - how churlish to pick out my spelling/typo: however she who lives in a glass house shouldn't throw stones (x2!). My excuse was very long hours getting a sore head and being tired reading CVs. What's yours?

Baggedandtagged has kindly given you the definition of a terrorist. Back to school for you Kitty

wot Riven sed

What would people on Mumsnet have preferred to see as a means of funding higher education?

I can see the arguments for a Graduate Tax (which is what the NUS is supporting), but I've also heard arguments that that would only work for UK (English/Welsh?) students paying taxes in the UK (England/Wales?), and would be rather an incentive for people to move hastily abroad.

Well, I think that's a very sensible idea for your son, Riven. If he's good enough to do that, then why shouldn't he?

FWIW, I don't think that 'science careers' (I know, ludicrously broad term) are badly paid. There's some research that I've seen lately that argues that, on the contrary, they are quite well paid when you look at the range of career options as a whole, although individual salaries obviously vary hugely, and I know that's the difficulty your family has. I'd say that it's not that science is poorly paid, but that some careers, like law and medicine, can be extraordinarily well paid in comparison to most careers. My dad, who's a scientist, always imagined that I, working in IT, was much much better paid than in fact I was, for example.

Riven, your DD's at Oxbridge isn't she? I don't know if the rules have changed since I was there but we were banned from doing part-time work during our terms (and tbh the workload is so demanding I'm not sure I could've managed one anyway. The insanely bright kids who just 'got' things rapidly might've done, but those of us who had to really work to get through the course, no chance).

We were also heavily discouraged from working during holidays. I had no choice, but with the phenomenal amount of reading required there's no question it had a direct effect on my grades.

I agree that the kids who really want to be at uni will generally study harder than those who have an easy ride, but I think there's a limit to that logic, and I think we'll see a lot more students failing to complete their degrees because of financial worries. It's not just 9k a year either, it's 9k a year just to walk through the door, plus all your living costs on top... Fancy studying medicine in London? Doesn't bear thinking about.

Great. another thread about how the wealthy do sweet fa to get anywhere in life.

The riots won't change a thing. We have no money. Higher education is not a right, you should have to work for it. Just as you do for everything else in life.

Christmas - your comments are bang out of order. I didnt see any rules on any of these threads stating that those who were fortunate enough to have private education should not have a say.

Should I ask MNHQ to set up a social exclusion zone? The increased inverse snobbery on some of these threads is starting to sicken me!

I started off life in a single parent family living on a council estate. I worked hard & went to Uni. I took out loans, overdrafts etc. I worked one job during term time and two or three during the holidays. I obtained a 2:1. I looked at where I came from and I wanted more from life so I went out, worked hard and got it.

I now have a career, own my own home (with help from the bank of course !) and have what I would call a reasonable lifestyle. Please drop the 'we are so disadvantaged' rubbish. If someone wants to achieve they can with hard work.

Gandhi managed to make huge political changes WITHOUT the violence that was seen yesterday. Whilst I agree that some of the 'protesters' were only there to cause trouble, I didn't see many of the 'genuine' protesters complaining - one who was interviewed on the news seemed quite excited and pleased with it all.

We cannot continue to fund a higher education system that now has four times as many students as just a couple of years ago. Where should we make cuts in the budget to fund this? Benefits, disability allowances, NHS??? There is a finite pot of money. Tough decisions have to be made about where that money is spent. We won't all like it. Democracy means we all get a say in choosing who makes those decisions, it's not about forcing our views on others with violence.

Defacing national monuments, terrorising (and yes I do think some people WERE terrified by some of the actions) and being violent is not going to win any sympathy or convert anyone round to their way of thinking.

I hope those that were involved in injuring the police, the horses, defacing statues, climbing the cenataph (beyond dispicable in my eyes) and terrosising people are caught by the police and charged and that their application to university is turned down because of this.

Sorry for the long rant. This has made my blood boil!

I think a Bomb under westminster would sort it all out...

..Just need too make sure it's set off when David "Shiny like a Bellend" and Margaret "Drinks the blood of Newborns" Thatcher are visiting!

Lordy lord, this thread is bringing out all the genius posters on mnet! Stupid comment GF

This is a failing of school education, not universities. Spelling and grammar are learned at primary and secondary school.

I can't believe that people going straight from school to work have, on average, spelling and grammar skills which are any better, as they will have learned them at the same schools.

"I've just been reading through CVs from university "educated" applicants and am absolutely appalled at the poor grammer, spelling and presentation"

the problem is that if they peaceflly protest even less will be achieved, unfortunatly violence is the only thing that gets anything doen, you just have to look at past history to know that.

If its shocking you then good, it needs toIs only paralleled by the shocking abuse of power the unelected scum are weilding.

Excuse they typing. the bar is open

Angels has said she wanted to pay for uni herself, she didn't the government funded it, in part, this isn't going to happen now.

Comments from people explaining how they paid back student debt bears no relation to the amounts that are needed from 2012 to do a degree, a basic degree will require loans of 42K.

Not all courses make it possible to get a part time job and if it is at all possible then DD will combined it with her course. She has had a job since she was 14. I don't need a lecture about victim mentality, because I'm a single parent, thank you very much, but it's difficult to be able to help support an adult child at uni on a lowish single income. A lot of funding that has been in place via bursaries is also being scrapped.

Angels, I will apologise though for say 'get lost' was feeling very let down last night.

After seeing the papers this morning i am more disgusted than i was yesterday.

and i am glad it didnt go the way of the students, if thats the way they think they should behave to get something then they are deluded, sod letting them go to uni send the immature lil shits back to nursery

what they did was so disrespectful to our country, they should be ashamed of themselves

I love the irony of this.

DaveandGideon say we've mortgaged the country to a hilt. So let's do the same to the students.

DaveandGideon were part of a club which is known for mindless violence yet they condone legitimate protests.

DaveandGideon seem to think that students are a waste of space, that university only benefits the graduates. Yet I'm sure they've benefitted from university educated medical staff, teachers, bankers and plenty of their government advisors etc etc. University does benefit society, it benefits the economy, it gives us world class scientists, engineers, medical staff etc (well it could but it won't anymore).

I hate hypocrisy.

How else should they get their voices heard?

Can you think of one of the MANY sit in/sleep in's that are going on in uni's around the country that are in the paper?

How about the protests of some of the lecturers who are refusing to work in support of the students?

Any of that in the paper? No? None of it? thought so.

The only way to be heard sometimes is to "Tear shit up"

why was it disrespectful to our country?

would you have argued all the fighting for black people not to be seen as slaves or to have the vote the same way?

what about the anti war protests? what about how the french protest?

what about the vote for women?

what about the anti guantanamo (sp) bay protests?

Climate change?

Are you a tory by any chance?

Its strange many people of a certain age and political aliance seem to be horrified...

hmm....