to wonder why most women marry men who don't know what teamwork is?

[frgr]

Yes, and I chose "most women" very specifically in my post title. Because that's what it feels like, and I'm frustrated at seeing the same story played over and over again on these boards plus in real life.

Just replied to a poster who was talking about feeling extremely underappreciated by her DH, feeling like he is basically just another pair of feet to tidy around. Then clicked on another thread - a woman talking about her husband feeling pressure as the main breadwinner who still expects her to do all housework, childcare, time off for appointments, school paperwork, homework supervision if she goes fulltime. As I was reading, my mobile beeped with a text message from my BF since primary school - an update on her and DH's trial separation prompted by, basically, him refusing to do anything non-work related when he gets home, including putting his own shoes away "because she's a SAHM and that's her job".

Why why why why do so many women continue to marry and have children with men who treat them this way? Do we need to suggest "teamwork" training as part of the pre-nup preps?

When a woman on here moans that her DH doesn't do this or doesn't do that, she's admitting that she picked a duff one. It's her fault.

Maybe I shouldn't say this but I do reckon a lot of women in the early days of a relationship like to show love by doing things for their OH whether that is cooking their favourite meal, ironing their shirts, making sure the sheets are clean or whatever (i know I was guilty of that). But once they have a husband they no longer need to make the same effort and indeed start resenting having to do it (again I reckon I'm guilty)...

For me the biggest wake up call was post DS when I felt I had to do everything since I was on maternity leave and wasn't contributing as much financially as pre- baby (when I was the main earner by a considerable margin) DP sat me down and told me he didnt care if the house was immaculate or his boxers were ironed as long as I was happy. Fortunately for me I have let things slide and he hasnt noticed (never liked my baking anyway)

Beenbeta, have you any idea how much mess a child can make between the hours of 3.30PM and 6.30PM?

Seriously. My house was reasonably clean and tidy at 1PM today (am working at home this week because can't be arsed with snow). It's now a fucking tip. It was a fucking tip at 4.30PM. The play date helped make it a tip, but tbh it would have been a tip if she hadn't been there.

Kids can make a house a tip in 30 minutes flat. And they never manage to clean it up to the standard it was at before they got in from school. I wouldn't assume that if a SAHM's house is a tip when a WOHD gets home at 6 O'clock or whatever, that's because she's been sitting on her arse watching Jeremy Kyle all day.

I agree with whoever said you can't nag a man into respecting you.

For me, the household labour issue is one of respect. You either see your DP as a skivvy or you don't. You either respect their work, paid or unpaid, or not.

But god yes housework is boring. And no-one notices if you do it, only if you don't.

PlentyOfParsnips - ... but can we acknowledge that housework is really fucking boring? However hard you work, it's all there to do again tomorrow/next week.

Just like working outside the home in my experience.

HerBeatitude - .... have you any idea how much mess a child can make between the hours of 3.30PM and 6.30PM?

Yes I have 2 DSs but we train them to pick up after themselves and do not allow them into any room except kitchen or their work room when they come home from school. They have homework to do and we dont allow them to make a mess elsewhere. Hopefully their future DP/DH will thank us for training them well.

Not allowing your DC's the run of the house isn't actually "training" them to pick up after themselves, if they only stay in two rooms then they're easy to contain and you can keep directing them to pick stuff up. You only know if they're properly "trained" if you can let them go anywhere in the house by themselves and an hour later, the place looks more or less the same as it did an hour before. Sounds like they have a lot of homework.

Housework is nothing like working outside the home. The social status, the social stimulation, adult networking, training, learning new things, change of scene, etc. are all missing from housework. And unless you work in a call centre or some such, there does tend to be a bit of variation in the tasks needing to be tackled.

On the upside, you can have the radio on and listen to radio 4 and learn new things, which you can't do at work, or listen to music and dance while you do it. I think like anything, it's OK for a limited amount of time - a few weeks, months or years - just like most jobs really.

interesting thread. dh and I both work outside the home - I am the main breadwinner but we work around the same number of hours overall. at home, we tend to do different things around the house but I think we both pull our weight and dh does his fair share.

However, when it comes to childcare, I seem to be the default option. dh seems to assume that because he picks up dd from school four times a week, this absolves him of all other childcare duties unless instructed otherwise. But I like taking charge of all that stuff really, so maybe I have created this situation because I am a control freak?

I agree with you op.

My dh is not perfect and if I ask him to collect/take kids from x to y( which he does without questioning) he always asks me to write it all down. Nobody writes it all down for me! I have to remember to get everything ready. If ever I forget somethging like their drink then dh says I should have put it in their bag, even if he is the one doing the trip.
On the other hand I tell him that I am not doing all the house work and remind him that under no circumstances will I be a maid.

I think a lot of women want to take control and really do set a bad example to their sons who will then grow up expecting a woman to do all the house work.

Dh is quite helpful with the kids / sorting out bills/ loading & unloading dishwasher etc but totally uninterested in cleaning although earns enough and happy to pay a cleaner.

I think the problem is that lots of women let their DHs get away with being a child early in relationship and hard to change once status quo sets in - I think important to set out who does what.

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But surely housework should not be 50/50 if he works 9-5 and she is SAHM (or vice versa)?

Agree, mrmanager - depending on age & number of dcs etc, I do think it's reasonable to expect a sahp to do a bit more around the house.

Because the situation is good until maternity leave strikes.

2 points, if I may..... first off (Piggles)
"I think there is still a lot of lingering 'traditional' roles though. Man works all day while little wifey stays at home cooking and cleaning and childrearing."
seriously? Little wifey? Some of us truely enjoy being at home, cooking, cleaning, sewing, painting, gardening, doing volunteer work....it only lacks stimulation if you get into a rut, which can happen anywhere, job or no.
Secondly, those who have fantastic husbands tend not to talk about it. Do you enjoy listening to someone going on and on about how amazing their mr. is? When we have it good, and I mean really good, we hush up, because we know how much it drives everyone else crazy. I married a man that treats me wonderfully, is a hard worker, a fantastic father, takes care of everyhting if I am overwhelmed, and more. But if were to go on about it, I would drive all my friends nuts. So maybe there are a lot of really great men out there, but it just doesn't get as much attention as the problems with the not so good ones.

'Little wifey' wasn't intended as disparagement. My family always gently ribbed me that I would be a perfect 'little wifey' in the traditional way because I really liked being at home baking or sewing.

It is very possible that some lucky ladies are keeping quiet about their awesome guys, because as you say nobody likes to hear someone brag on and on about their wonderful hubby. But personally I am happy for my friends who do have considerate supportive partners and like to hear that they are content with their relationship.

In my own experience of men, there are lots of decent ones out there - but there is certainly a very good share of lazy unreasonable gits too... I know, I was involved with some of them and it stands to reason that there just aren't enough nice guys to go round, hence the existence of this thread I guess.

Piggles, thank you for clearing that up : ) I am a bit touchy these days, after a few too many pointed jibes from the in-laws, mostly along the lines of "so, what's stopping you working?"
There are plenty of crumby guys, I dated a few back in the day, I just meant that there are also a lot of unsung heros too. Now, if only there was some sort of registery for the plonkers!

Sorry for not having read all the post but come on seriously its a no brainer, I', 43 I've been through every possible relationship imaginable. christ on a moped no offence but that op sounds like a post from a good housewives mag of the 50's sorry for being so blunt but team work me hole! since when did a marraige become a feckin project? grow a pair or three!

"since when did a marraige become a feckin project"

... OK, replace "teamwork" with "respect" or "treating your partner well" or "being a decent human being" - I don't see the point of picking on trivial details when you're totally and utterly missing the point of the thread

Sigh.

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Very funny!!!!

Actually though I disagree. I think that you have to start how you mean to go on. I agree with the OP that I am always hearing about this problem and I also know a couple who split up because of this. Personally from my experience it seems that women often start out doing stuff for their man, out of love or what ever, and then man gets used to it and then that's it! They will never change. You have to start out as equals and not baby a man if you don't intend to do it for the rest of your lives!