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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to be totally mystified by this

105 replies

tundra · 06/12/2010 16:27

My brother agreed to lend me £200 to help me get through christmas etc, we've done it before and I've always paid him back. I went round to pick the cheque up this morning but SIL has decided he's not lending it. She said she runs the finances now and she's decided we aren't going to lend to me any money. I said that my brother had agreed to which she said I'm the breadwinner (brother is currently unemployed) and so I will decide how and where money is spent and that unfortunately he agreed the loan without getting her approval and she doesn't agree.

I've got someone else to lend me the money so its not a problem but it seems quite sinister. I'm a lone parent and have never co-habitted but is this the way households with one working person works, the non-working person has to ask the working one whether they are allowed to spend/lend money etc.

OP posts:

PeeringIntoAFestiveVoid · 06/12/2010 18:16

at *Colditz's turd apostrophe.

taintedsnow · 06/12/2010 18:19

I think SIL was incredibly rude the way she spoke, but situationally, I think she was actually being sensible.

Possibly a bit controlling, but I don't think that means she was wrong in this case.

LadyViper · 06/12/2010 18:20

It was probably this loan that made her decide to takeover the finances!

frgr · 06/12/2010 18:35

Perhaps she could have been slightly more tactful... but to regularly borrow money from your currently unemployed brother and expect her to just let you borrow it despite not wanting to loan it is unreasonable.

Are you BU to think she could have worded it nicer? No, probably not.

Are you BU to ask for it in the first place? Probably, depends on the relationship between you and your brother. but it sounds like you shouldn't have asked in the first place.

Are you BU to think that SIL shouldn't have a veto say in where this couple's money goes? absolutely you are being very very unresonable.

your SIL sounds sensible. plenty of people are struggling this year; if her husband is unemployed and she's trying to take control of the finances, it seems cheeky of you to even think about asking. never mind challenging your SIL's decision (never mind whether she treats it as 50% her money like we do, or 100% of her money, the fact is that it's some of HER money).

frgr · 06/12/2010 18:37

p.s i would also be fuming if DH agreed to lend family members money repeatedly without my having a say in it. i earn less than him, but it's money which goes towards our living costs and financial security. you shouldn't be questionning your SIL on this, and really, i think your BIL has placed your SIL in a really shitty situation. because now she's the one getting the flack for, seemingly, being sensible and putting her foot down over his.

Limara · 06/12/2010 18:45

Tundra If your brother is married to her then they are a couple aren't they? Then presuming they can affort it, I think they should lend you the money. It's FAMILY and families look after each other. They've probably been arguing about this though what do you reckon? Did she have a bee in her bonnet? I'm with you on this one especially if you pay him back but please don't dwell on it. Nobody knows what goes on behind closed door and you know your bro would have loved to help you out and that's what's important.

frgr · 06/12/2010 18:49

Limara if the OP repeatedly does this sort of thing at Christmas, just because she has family members to bail her out, isn't it better that her family members stop enabling this behaviour? Obviously I don't know the OP, but having witnessed family members who were shite with money, enough to repeatedly borrow from others, sometimes the kindest thing isn't to keep dipping into pockets. Even if the money is paid back.

Besides, the very fact that SIL has had to take over finances, and her husband is unemployed, I'm not convinced the OP is entitled to tell us that they can definitely afford to keep doing this.

TattytinsellooksDevine · 06/12/2010 18:51

I dont think it should have anything much to do with who earned the money assuming they are a couple with children together and a joint account and/or house together that both have paid into in the past, and will probably pay into in the future.

If I had no income for whatever reason and my husband decided he could lend money out without my "approval" or agreement, simply because he'd earned it, I'd be miffed. I'd be equally miffed if he thought he could do this when I'd earned the money and he had no job.

If a chunk of money goes out the pot of cash for whatever reason, it should be discussed or approved with the other party.

Its not about the non-earner asking the earner or vice versa, just a couple taking joint financial responsibility.

If he's not financially responsible, that may explain why what should be an adult/adult exchange has become a parent/child one.

Mumcentreplus · 06/12/2010 18:54

I really don't get the issue with lending other members of your family money ... you do or you don't simple as that...making a moral judgement on their financial competence?......

what niggles me is the way she expressed herself..imagine if it was the other way around..

oldraver · 06/12/2010 18:57

How long has your DB been unemployed ? Your SIL is probably fed up of you borrowing off them and felt she couldn't say anything while your DB was earning, now she feels she can and has been harsh in her words

curlymama · 06/12/2010 19:00

It has nothing to do with who earned the money, they are a couple and he was wrong to agree to lend it to you without checking with her first.

When she said no, you should have accepted it. Who are you to say 'my brother agreed to it'? He had no bloody right to agree to it in the first place! What did you expect her to say in response to that comment? Of course she has a right to bring up the fact that she is earning the money when pushed on it.

Do you think you should have more rights over your brother's money than his wife/partner does?

Your attitude is actually quite disgusting, no wonder so many women have a problem with their SIL's when they act the way you did.

frgr · 06/12/2010 19:02

Mumcentreplus, personally I made a judgement on the couple's financial competence because, in my experience where one half of a couple has to step in and "run" the household finances, where there is an unemployment, where family members repeatedly borrow (and expect to continue borrowing) significant chunks of cash - all these are warning signs that the SIL has made a practical decision. Any judgement onto the moral rights or wrongs of lending to the OP shouldn't be confused with that.

Also the way that the OP tries to make us believe that the main issue is one of control:

"is this the way households with one working person works, the non-working person has to ask the working one whether they are allowed to spend/lend money etc."

... this is clearly set up to provoke a horrified uplifting of mumsnet arms and say "no, sister, that's not the way women live in 2010".... but it confuses the issue. The issue here is about the teamwork that goes into making a household financially secure, and about how the balace between who gets to say what really shouldn't be questioned by the OP as she really doesn't have any idea of her brother's finances. Much less to be judging whether the ONLY motivation behind her SIL's outburst is because she is the only one working full time.

OP's short post throws up a multitide of issues, and the full-time-worker/unemployed person split is only a tiny tiny part of that.

Just trying to say that the issue isn't as black and white as the OP suggests, really.

DuelingFanjo · 06/12/2010 19:03

If they had discussed it then he should have called you to let you know. Why didn't he?

Where was he when you called round?

I think she has every right to discuss this situation with her Dh and make a decision not to lend you the money.

Mumcentreplus · 06/12/2010 19:11

frgr I agree with your comments but this does not change the fact that if the SIL wanted to say they could not afford it she could have just said so..why the 'I'm the breadwinner (brother is currently unemployed) and so I will decide how and where money is spent' comment?...and as you say the issue isn't as black and white as suggested...

AnnieLobeseder · 06/12/2010 19:18

DH and I would have to be in agreement before either of us lent £200 to either of our brothers.

It's not about one person having to ask if they're allowed to lend/spend money, it's about making a joint decision for substantial amounts of money that have a big effect on the family budget.

I would disagree with her saying that she gets final vote because she's the breadwinner, however. No matter who is currently the main earner, household money is household money, as far as we're concerned. I always wonder how other couples do it any other way without huge stress and unpleasantness.

uyter · 06/12/2010 19:24

I wonder if it were a sister and BIL whether peole would be saying this. If a man said I'm the breadwinner so I control the finances then people would be screaming financial abuse would they not. It might just be her turn of phrase but it does seem overly agressive

atswimtwolengths · 06/12/2010 19:31

I think her SIL sounds like she's under a lot of stress and absolutely exasperated by a request for a loan.

cikals · 06/12/2010 19:41

YABU but SIL could perhaps have dealt with your request a little better and the I'm the breadwinner was probably uncalled for

northerngirl41 · 06/12/2010 19:55

In our house, I run the finances and I'd say no if money was coming out of the household budget because we need that money to pay our own bills. We both work and the extra cash we both earn is ours to spend how we like.

Sure there's a bit of leeway in there so that if the electricity bill is sky high or DC need new shoes it's not a massive deal, but there's not £200 worth of extra floating around. And if one of us wasn't working then I'd expect both of us to be spending money sensibly and cutting back. I'd be mightily peeved if I'd slogged my guts out for that money and DH lent it to his family. That's MY money in a sense that I earned it for our family, not for yours!

It's entirely possible that while her brother was working that SIL didn't know about this arrangement or was able to turn a blind eye.

LisaD1 · 06/12/2010 19:59

I would expect my DH to check with me first and vice versa before lending money from the family pot (we both earn although he earns approx 3x what I do as I work Part-time), however, if I had said I would lend money to a family member and he then spoke to them the way you say your sil spoke to you I would be livid, as would he if it were the other way around.

All couple have different dynamics though and you have to respect how they run their finances/lives.

SantasENormaSnob · 06/12/2010 20:26

Yabvu

BigHairyGruffalo · 06/12/2010 20:38

Is there a chance that the brother has been lending the money for years without the consent of SIL, using the excuse that he was the main ?breadwinner?, and now the tables have turned, she can say ?no? for the same reason?

queenlet · 06/12/2010 23:18

If my DH had lent money without telling me I'd be pretty unhappy and would probably block it. Although I wouldn't have spoken to you like she did, he'd be livid and rightly so

medetre · 06/12/2010 23:44

Sounds to me like SIL has had enough of you relying on your brother to see you through and she has used her higher status because she is paid employment and he isn't to put a stop to it.

magicmummy1 · 06/12/2010 23:54

Well, I'm the main breadwinner in our family, and I wouldn't dream of lending someone £200 without at least discussing it with DH first.

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