workers are an underclass?

[soggy14]

Does anyone else feel that we are heading into a society where anyone working is becoming a poor underclass whilst the "well off" are those on benefits? Okay not as bad but approaching the Downton Abbey type senario where those of us in paid employment are downstairs and (some of) those on benefits upstairs.

And yes I know that some people on benefits need them and genuinely cannot work but many I think do not need them. And I know that I will now get flamed by hundreds shouting that they are struggling on benefits :) but we are struggling on our incomes but also need to work all the time and seem to be worse off than those doing nothing yet are having to support them :(

Actually I have seen life from both sides from personal experience. In the last two years we have gone from being on benefits, both of us, to just me workingthen both of us working, dp full time and me pt. We are both on minimum wage( i'm slightly above.

We are not that much better off really but then we are in lots of debt and my car has loads of problems. We still struggle to heat our house which is council (cannot get help with council tax or rent, have tried)I still struggle to find money for the weekly shop and My mum lend me twenty quid before and I worried myself silly wondering whether or not to put it all on gas or keep a fiver back for dp bus fare to work in the morning.

But But But lthough yes we struggle still the same amount as when we both weren't working I have noticed thatr dp has a reason to get up in the morning, his self esteem has gone up and there is actually a routine in his life. He hated not working it was a pride thing for him.

But then again pride doesn't pay the bills does it.

I do hate all this benefit bashing crap though. No widescreen telly here in sheeps household working or not!

Christ, just read that back and my spelling and grammar is appalling,

darlneoconner we have 3 children not two so our effective poverty line will be higher. My point is that we should, IMO, be wa above it given how hard dh works and that as a higher rate tax payer he is supposedly one of the "super rich".
lovely we spent a year looking for a house that we could afford in this area (ie close enough for dh to commute to his old job (he was the nmade redundant again but we could not afford to move again so soon as all our savings went on the last move). Also our children (one of which has SNs) are now all in schools so moving would be far harder. And it would not get us anywhere as we still need to enable dh to get to London regularly so we'd still be in the south. I can only assume that everyone who keeps saying "move somewhere cheaper" is eithr lucky enough to have bought before the prices went up or is in Newcastle or Wales as evrywhere else £200K+ seems about what you need to pay for a house.

I know Soggy, I am sympathising with you over the housing issue. I agree that it is not so easy to just up and move. I also sympathise with people in different positions who also have housing to pay for, such as Loudlass. I really think the vast cost of housing creates problems for people in lots of circumstances.
Loudlass, I hope darlene is right and things get easier for you. She is right and you are still young, and you will have a lovely dc4!

I agree and disagree with the OP.

I agree that even if you are a higher rate taxpayer you can live on the breadline IF you have many children, (like us), no family support and a large mortgage. These three factors CAN mean spending all of one salary on childcare and a large part of the other on housing. It's really rubbish.

HOWEVER I disagree that living on benefits is BETTER as I personally think it's really tough and I don't know how people do it. It's not just how little they have to survive on, it's the insecurity for the future I couldn't live with. So YABU on that point but reasonable on the first one.

Anyone who thinks HR taxpayer = super rich is delusional. It equals comfortable, with options- and in relaity being able to get a mortgage / etc is comfortable.

That doesn;t help though when you are awake at night worrying about how to cope financially.

The worst thing to be in any situation is in debt; when Dh and I both worked we were in debt for all manner of reasons (Dh brought a fair bit to the relationship, manageable when he was at home with his aprents) and that ate almost all our incomings just to tread water. Now we are on less money but nigh on debt free (because we sold the house and cleared it) life is in many ways better' I do however hugely miss the security of the house and wonder what will become of us as we age: some on here talk about a quick trip to Switzerland when they get old but as acarer I have to live for as long as I can.

It's also helpful to see long term: no one person could work harder than DH at the moment because it's from waking to sleep, he's exhausted and maing himself ill. But the hard work now should if we are lucky pay off with a thriving business and qualifications in a field he adores. It's an investment.

Op. Someone early on in this thread questionned your payment of £100 pm for your septic tank. And suggested you start a thread on this. I assume you had a survey done on your house, for the mortgage? I have never heard of this £100pm. Would you reassure me that you will look into whether or not you are being ripped off on this score?

I have a septic tank and have twice paid about £150 to have it emptied, and that is higher than normal because of the slightly awkward position of the house. (Twice in over 10 years). I pay less to the water company because they don't take away my waste. I understand you don't have room for a soakaway, nor do I. I am genuinely mystified as to why you are paying this amount.

I will dig out my septic tank firm's number for you to ring, if only for them to explain to you what is going on. The septic tank thing does not make sense, and I have spent far longer than I would have liked thinking about septic tanks. Do start a thread on that. With an extra £100 pm, you would be ok.

In your water bills, are you charged for removal of waste? I was for YEARS, and I am now claiming it back. The company wouldn't believe I had a septic tank and wouldn't come round to have a look. Now I have just had it emptied, I have proof for them.

Talk to your neighbours.

Soggy I amin Wals (we moved here for cheap housing LOL but it was commutable from dh's old work- not suggesting it for you) and houses in our town close to £200k, neighbours up for £190k.

Housing is a massive issue for many. We're vulnerable to being homeless because no LL here will touch self employed, and that hangs over us a bit. but having an annual lease means we can go day tro day; far better than many. I dread to think what will happen when we get old though- a council house here would be a nightmare (our family and friends all in the south west) so we are working wqith the aim of moving down there in the next 5 years, somehow.

To the OP.
Benefits, benefit the working as well as the non-working, you can't lump all benefits claimants in as one mass.

Obviously if you are working and earning 50p too much to claim benefits you have every right to be pissed off but they are there as a safety net for the poor and they are just that.

the majority of the unemployed do not live in the lap of luxury, the few that make it to the pages of the Daily Fail are the fraudsters and swindlers who know how to work around every loop hole in the system, they are few and far between, and if in work they would be doing the same until they got sacked.

So based on your high and mighty detail free first post I say YABVU.

one hour from London euston by rail thus negating the need for a car (as he could use the tube)

Childcare for the area will also be a lot cheaper than in the south. You could rent out your property and pretty much live off the profits.

It was a shitty business, Riven.