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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to have sacked my nanny? (Be warned, this is probably a bit of a rant!)

115 replies

Fillybuster · 04/12/2010 14:44

OK, its a done deal now, but I'd appreciate your feedback regardless...sorry this is a bit long:

Background: I have 3 dcs: DS 5. DD1 nearly 3, DD2 5 months

We had our nanny for 4.5 years: she looked after DS1 full-time from 8 months; took a break during the second part of my maternity leave with DD1 then came back 4 days a week when DD1 was 9 months. When I was pregnant with DD2 we agreed she would work full time until DD2 was 3 months and DD1 started nursery, then reduced hours until Christmas and would probably stop around then.

Although our nanny was great with the dcs - she clearly loved them and they loved her - she is a challenging person with some 'issues', particularly with anger management and emotional maturity. These have caused some problems during her time with us, but on the whole we've let a lot of things go. In particular, we were aware (from a lot of people) that she didn't have a good word to say about us behind our backs - in particular, she was vile about me.

Recently she has been pretty unpleasant to my face, too. I liked being told when DD2 was 10 days old that "there's no reason for you to be tired, all you do is sit around on your arse feeding the baby" Shock....and I had just made her lunch! She has always been slightly over-involved with DS1 in particular, calling him "her boyfriend" and "the love of her life", but I put that down to being very loving....

Aaaanyway....

We gave her formal notice at the end of last week that we didn't have a job for her from January. She's known it for a while, but we wanted to confirm. She begged us not to tell the DCs as "she couldn't cope with them knowing". We agreed that we would all tell them together during her last week.

I was aware that she was telling everyone at the school gates, as various mums had been in touch, but was fine with that, as long as me DCs didn't find out.

On Thursday DS's school called and asked me to come in for an urgent meeting. The meeting was with the Headmistress and his class teacher (Year 1) and both were very concerned. Apparently his behaviour had changed "alarmingly" since Monday, and although it was only 3 days, the change was so noticeable, and so out of character that they felt that had to call me in. This was the same child who had an overwhelmingly positive review at Parents Evening 2 weeks ago, so something was clearly very wrong. Amongst other things he had punched a Yr 4 girl in the playground on Wednesday for no reason and had been trying to kiss and cuddle a group of Yr 5 girls despite them asking him to stop.

His teacher had asked DS if anything was wrong, or if he had any secrets, but he had clammed up and looked terrified. He had told her that he has "no good thoughts" in his head, and couldn't sleep because he was worried :(

They asked if there were any changes going on - I explained the nanny was leaving (they knew....she had told both of them!) but that he didn't know. I started wondering....

On Thursday night I had a long chat with DS about hitting the girl (he said "I felt like I had to hit someone, so I did", but wouldn't tell me why he felt so sad), about how family are there to look after you, how you don't need to have secrets from mummy and daddy (even if someone tell you that you do) etc and then asked him if he had any secrets or if something was making him unhappy. He insisted not.

Then I told him that our nanny was going to be leaving in a few weeks.

He said "I know". I asked him how he knew. He told me that our nanny had told him on Monday but had told him that he absolutely mustn't tell Mummy or Daddy or his teacher that he knew, or he would get into really big trouble. He also told me that she had promised to phone him every morning and every evening, and write every day, and visit him and that when he was big he could go and stay with her. I asked him if this was why he had been so sad at school and he said it was because he wasn't allowed to tell anyone or talk about it.

ShockShockShock[schock]

So in the space of 3 days, my happy, confident, school-loving, gentle DS was compltely changed by the weight of a secret he couldn't cope with. He was very relieved finally to be able to talk about it, and went to bed much happier.

Effectively, she tried to turn DS against his family and prioritised her emotional needs (wanting to be loved more than anyone else) over his.

She only briefly denied it when confronted by DH and myself - demanded that we "bring DS in here right now and have it out with him" - then claimed she had every right to tell whoever she wanted, then claimed we were only sacking her to get out of paying her. At which point I handed her a cheque for the full amount (including annual leave etc) and told her to get out.

So, WIBU to sack her when she turned up for work yesterday? I could cope with all her unpleasantness when directed at me, but always thought she would protect my children and never hurt them?

OP posts:
prayingmantisgroupie · 04/12/2010 22:43

Think you were absolutely right to sack her, (am a nanny by the way). I used to know a nanny like this many years ago; she ended up getting the sack too. The circumstances were uncannily similar, she slagged off the mum boss to anyone who would listen, whilst treating the kids like her own. She once told me that she truly believed that she was actually their mother in a previous life. Barking.
Anyway, what I actually came on to say was, don't forget she may have a copy of your house keys, (even if she returned her official set). Not trying to worry you, but I'd seriously think about changing the lock. Just in case. Not saying she'd do anything, but you don't want her wandering in when you're not there.

MrsNonSmoker · 05/12/2010 00:47

Frightening. Hope you are all ok now?

WorkingItOutAsIGo · 05/12/2010 01:16

Just to say that you do need to think about whther your dcs need to say a proper farewell. My current nanny, who is lovely, was let go by her previous employer on a Friday night and the little boy was never told she had left, she just didn't appear. I think he really struggled with t and was terribly upset when he saw her in the street. Whenever we have had a nanny leaving we've made sure the dcs knew well in advance and said proper farewells. These are women who have been all-important in their lives and the dcs can't just switch off their love and trust.

magicOC · 05/12/2010 02:02

A child should never be asked to keep secrets of any kind. What kind of training has she had? It goes against all the child protection issues we are taught about.

If like a previous poster said, we have done cards/cake or whatever for birthdays etc, these are known as surprises which will be used to surprise mummy/daddy when they get up on the morning of their birthday.

She sounds seriously unhinged and I would be contacting your agency (if you used one?) and also OFSTED if she is registered.

She needs help.

AphraBen · 05/12/2010 04:19

She sounds almost exactly like a nanny we hired for our first DC and fired 2 wks later because of "major fruitloop tendancies" - Shock

Anniegetyourgun · 05/12/2010 10:13

JustKeepSparkling, you may be thinking of this film, The Nanny, starring the excellent Bette Davis.

gapbear · 05/12/2010 10:47

I thought JustKeepSparkling could be thinking of The Hand That Rocks The Cradle. Creepy film, if ever I saw one...

JustKeepSparkling · 05/12/2010 11:05

Gapbear - that's the one!

MilkNoSugarPlease · 05/12/2010 11:11

The Hand That Rocks Te Cradle is ace!

I want to watch The Nanny now!

Tarenath · 05/12/2010 11:13

YADNBU!!

I'm a nanny and while I admit I'm not perfect, this woman's behaviour is shocking! She sounds completely unprofessional, and as other's have said, a bit loony!

I can understand why you kept her on. Better the devil you know sort of thing? I agree with magicOC though. I've never asked the children to keep secrets, but we have organised suprises for mum and dad, and my eldest charge (similar age to your ds) knows we don't have secrets, only suprises.

"she wasn't able to have her own children, which is why she became a nanny"
To be honest, this would have rung alarm bells for me at an interview. I know of parents who try to live vicariously through their children and I would have been extremely wary of someone citing this as their reason for working in childcare as I would hate someone to be living vicariously through MY children which it sounds a bit like this woman was doing!

With regards to a reference, I would just give a basic reference if she asks stating when she worked for you and if anyone else does contact you, be brutally honest as to how she behaved and why you sacked her.

IMO this woman should not be working in any care profession, letalone childcare!

Laquitar · 05/12/2010 11:13

I am very shocked that you needed us to confirm that you did the right thing. Why ?
YANBU.

What are you going to do now, another nanny or nursery? If you hire another nanny you will have to tell her the story in case they meet in the park (sorry i dont mean to scare you).

I would allow my dcs to do 'closure' and say goodbyes but with me pesent.

verytellytubby · 05/12/2010 11:22

She sounds like a total fruit loop.

Blondeshavemorefun · 05/12/2010 11:35

i dont understand this 'better the devil you know thing'

you were not happy with her and you felt unsure YET you still kept her on as you were working/pregnant etc and she still had 100% care/control of your other 2 children

i dont meant to sound harsh but if you did have concerns, which you did as you looked about for another nanny, but couldnt find anyone suitable - then you are to blame as well for not getting rid of her nearly 18mths ago

yes obviously it is hard and stressful having to find new childcare,esp when you are worried you may lose your job if you cant find suitable childcare but it seems you didnt do that and now has been at the expense of your eldest

im not saying what this nanny did was right, far from it, but you have to accept you are partly to blame that it/she carried on for so long

i still think you should allow her to say goodbye to your eldest 2 - if for nothing else closure

and yes good idea getting house locks changed - IF you think she is that unhinged - you also need to contact the agency you hired her from (if any) and also ofsted (if she is registered)

am i assuming right then as there was to be no job from jan 2011, then you have decided not to go back to work after no 3?

BerylStreep · 05/12/2010 11:45

Perhaps she was such a good Nanny she has had to go to the North Pole urgently to look after all the baby elves because their nanny is ill? And her leaving card can be posted to "nanny name" c/o Father Christmas, The North Pole...

What a great idea.

I agree that I would not be inclined to pay for any counselling for her, as per Eurostar's suggestion. Hmm

Laquitar · 05/12/2010 11:53

Why is a great idea about the North Pole?
What if OP's son see the nanny in the street or park?
Why complicated lies?
You can say 'she was a nanny and they dont stay forever and the agreement was to be his nanny until he was 5' or something like this.

Blondeshavemorefun · 05/12/2010 11:59

agree dont start lying to the child - its part of life that nanny jobs come to an end :(

yours was coming to an end in jan,as i said assuming you are not going back to work, so just say to ds1 that mummy doesnt need a full time nanny anymore

we've already been discussing with DS how much fun it would be to get an aupair in January and how having someone young might be nice for going to the park, playing sports etc. He has already asked if they will do baking and cooking with him, as our nanny always refused

im assuming an ap (tho technically they dont exist anymore) as you will be about and she is more like an extra pair of hands?

why on earth would a nanny refuse to do cooking? Xmas Hmm Xmas Sad

Fillybuster · 05/12/2010 21:35

Again, thanks for the support. I am simply going to tell my DS that the nanny caught my bloody awful cold and couldnt come in for a few days; later in the week it will be as follows:

  1. She's been ill for a few days and still feels a bit snotty
  2. Grandma is back and wants to spend more time with you (True: Grandma was away for 10 weeks and is now home)
  3. Nanny was finishing in 1 week anyway (True, and he knew it)
  4. Nanny doesnt like goodbyes (True, stated often in front of him) and has decided it would be easier for her not to come back now she's nearly finished here anyway. She sends lots of love and hopes he has lots of fun with the new au pair.
  5. (Perhaps down the line when he asks why she hasn't called) Nanny was going to Jamaica for a month or two (also probably true, and v likely as she has been for extended trips before).

Hopefully by February we'll be into a whole new routine and thoughts of her will fade.

I don't want to lie, but I see no way to engineer a sensible goodbye. My DH says I didn't help things by telling her I would be telling the school and nursery not to let her onto the premises (she did get very cross at this) but I felt it needed saying. Anyway, there's no way she would come and have a civil goodbye with the dcs now, even if she actually wanted to; and I think that DS would be more distressed by seeng her in floods of tears (or, even worse, being really cold and distant) than just not seeing her. Much as I normally like 'closure'.

Yes, lesson learnt and I will be more on guard in future, but in many ways and for a long time she was a very good, focussed nanny (no tv, lots of fresh air, lots of singing, good manners, eating nicely, cooking fresh food every night etc etc) and our children were happy and secure, which was my priority.

To whoever asked: I will be going back to work sometime next year, by June at the latest. If its full time, we may get a new nanny, if its not then we may use a local childminder for DS2 during the day and get our aupair to cover the bit from the end of school to when I come home. But for now, I'm going to be around for the next 3-6 months and am looking forward to spending a lot more time with my dcs without pussyfooting around my nanny.....its only now I've realised how frequently I have held back when I've been in the house with her in order to avoid upsetting her/treading on her toes :(

OP posts:
Ripeberry · 05/12/2010 21:41

Sounds like a bunny boiler Shock. Don't know how you managed to cope with her for so long!

MogTheForgetfulCat · 05/12/2010 22:09

Blimey, she sounds bonkers as conkers. Poor DS Sad. V glad she ahs gone and you can get to enjoy your DC again.

leeloo1 · 05/12/2010 22:09

I'd completely support your last post and would be avoiding any goodbyes. I'd consider letting the children make her a card to 'post' to her, if they want to, or mention missing her in the future and then leave it at that.

Would second changing locks and speaking to schools and nurseries - speak to heads/managers and make it clear that she is potentially dangerous (if she really is unhinged and decides you've wronged her or that your DS 'needs' to see her could/would she try to take him? - even if just briefly it'd be awful) and emphasise that all staff need to be made aware of this... as she'll be a familiar face to NNs/TAs etc who may let your DC go without thinking about it.

I'd also think about counselling/careful discussion, but with your DC (not for nanny Hmm), especially your DS, as he may well feel guilty about 'telling' and decide in his own mind he is to blame for her leaving, even if he never says anything to you. His actions in school show he was clearly v v upset by whole situation and if she was odd in other ways then he might start to remember/suffer from the effects of what she's said/done? He may need help to come to terms with it all?

Sorry bit doom-laden, obviously you know your DC best and hopefully not an issue, but worth bearing in mind?

ps agree you were right to tell the mad nanny that she wouldn't be allowed to go to school/nursery! :)

SalFresco · 05/12/2010 22:34

I don't know about the goodbye thing, and that thoughts of her will fade. DS1 is still upset about my sister's boyfriend not being around anymore (they broke up in Feb) - he's 4, and obviously didn't have the close daily contact your DS would have had with a nanny. Not to say you should expose your DC's to a situation you're not comfortable with but that as other posters have suggested, it would be a good idea to have a plan in place to manage this.

edam · 05/12/2010 22:58

Good grief, how horrible. Poor ds (and dds too, it's a big change for them as well). Awful that it has ended so badly and so suddenly for your children.

I think it might be worth seeking proper advice about how to explain her departure to ds (and dds) - given how distressed he is and how worried he must be. He might well blame himself. Thoughts of someone who has cared for him almost his whole life aren't going to fade any time soon. He might not express them openly, but they will be there. This is a huge deal for ds and the dds too. Their first (possibly?) and certainly biggest experience of loss. Telling a string of fibs about it really won't help - especially as this whole episode was caused by a lie in the first place.

Your children need to feel secure, that the people who care for them aren't just going to disappear and that they can trust you to tell them the truth.

edam · 05/12/2010 23:00

(btw, I'm thinking about this as some who used to employ a nanny and from my own childhood memories of having mother's helps - I certainly didn't forget the two women who looked after me when I was pre-school/reception age.)

blueshoes · 05/12/2010 23:02

Definitely bunny boiler.

I prefer to be matter-of-fact about the goodbyes. If your dcs seem to be taking it alright, and you will be with them for the next few months anyway, I am tempted to just let sleeping dogs lie, with posting goodbye letters etc for closure. I would imagine a very cold day in hell before I would let a nut case like her anywhere near my dcs. I don't know how you could restrain yourself like that when it was your ds' mind she was messing with. I feel like tearing her limb to limb on your and your ds' behalf.

Filly, if you are going down the aupair route or even nanny route, I suggest (gently) you not pussyfoot around anymore. Yes, the inconvenience of changing is huge. I have been there with a ft job. I fear that nanny sensed a soft touch and milked it for all it was worth.

Do you allow people in your office who work for you to get away with such behaviour (speaking vile about you). Why would you accept it in a domestic context?

My dcs have never pined for any of their carers. Even the most favourites' names were forgotten all too soon. I am the one who does the keeping-in-touch X'mas cards and photos for them after they left. My dcs don't take much of an interest in them once gone. They know dh and I am the constant in their lives.

edam · 05/12/2010 23:14

blueshoes - you say 'carers', plural. This is one nanny who has cared for these children all their lives - the ds since he was six months old. Nine-tenths of his life. That is a very big loss to cope with.

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