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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to have sacked my nanny? (Be warned, this is probably a bit of a rant!)

115 replies

Fillybuster · 04/12/2010 14:44

OK, its a done deal now, but I'd appreciate your feedback regardless...sorry this is a bit long:

Background: I have 3 dcs: DS 5. DD1 nearly 3, DD2 5 months

We had our nanny for 4.5 years: she looked after DS1 full-time from 8 months; took a break during the second part of my maternity leave with DD1 then came back 4 days a week when DD1 was 9 months. When I was pregnant with DD2 we agreed she would work full time until DD2 was 3 months and DD1 started nursery, then reduced hours until Christmas and would probably stop around then.

Although our nanny was great with the dcs - she clearly loved them and they loved her - she is a challenging person with some 'issues', particularly with anger management and emotional maturity. These have caused some problems during her time with us, but on the whole we've let a lot of things go. In particular, we were aware (from a lot of people) that she didn't have a good word to say about us behind our backs - in particular, she was vile about me.

Recently she has been pretty unpleasant to my face, too. I liked being told when DD2 was 10 days old that "there's no reason for you to be tired, all you do is sit around on your arse feeding the baby" Shock....and I had just made her lunch! She has always been slightly over-involved with DS1 in particular, calling him "her boyfriend" and "the love of her life", but I put that down to being very loving....

Aaaanyway....

We gave her formal notice at the end of last week that we didn't have a job for her from January. She's known it for a while, but we wanted to confirm. She begged us not to tell the DCs as "she couldn't cope with them knowing". We agreed that we would all tell them together during her last week.

I was aware that she was telling everyone at the school gates, as various mums had been in touch, but was fine with that, as long as me DCs didn't find out.

On Thursday DS's school called and asked me to come in for an urgent meeting. The meeting was with the Headmistress and his class teacher (Year 1) and both were very concerned. Apparently his behaviour had changed "alarmingly" since Monday, and although it was only 3 days, the change was so noticeable, and so out of character that they felt that had to call me in. This was the same child who had an overwhelmingly positive review at Parents Evening 2 weeks ago, so something was clearly very wrong. Amongst other things he had punched a Yr 4 girl in the playground on Wednesday for no reason and had been trying to kiss and cuddle a group of Yr 5 girls despite them asking him to stop.

His teacher had asked DS if anything was wrong, or if he had any secrets, but he had clammed up and looked terrified. He had told her that he has "no good thoughts" in his head, and couldn't sleep because he was worried :(

They asked if there were any changes going on - I explained the nanny was leaving (they knew....she had told both of them!) but that he didn't know. I started wondering....

On Thursday night I had a long chat with DS about hitting the girl (he said "I felt like I had to hit someone, so I did", but wouldn't tell me why he felt so sad), about how family are there to look after you, how you don't need to have secrets from mummy and daddy (even if someone tell you that you do) etc and then asked him if he had any secrets or if something was making him unhappy. He insisted not.

Then I told him that our nanny was going to be leaving in a few weeks.

He said "I know". I asked him how he knew. He told me that our nanny had told him on Monday but had told him that he absolutely mustn't tell Mummy or Daddy or his teacher that he knew, or he would get into really big trouble. He also told me that she had promised to phone him every morning and every evening, and write every day, and visit him and that when he was big he could go and stay with her. I asked him if this was why he had been so sad at school and he said it was because he wasn't allowed to tell anyone or talk about it.

ShockShockShock[schock]

So in the space of 3 days, my happy, confident, school-loving, gentle DS was compltely changed by the weight of a secret he couldn't cope with. He was very relieved finally to be able to talk about it, and went to bed much happier.

Effectively, she tried to turn DS against his family and prioritised her emotional needs (wanting to be loved more than anyone else) over his.

She only briefly denied it when confronted by DH and myself - demanded that we "bring DS in here right now and have it out with him" - then claimed she had every right to tell whoever she wanted, then claimed we were only sacking her to get out of paying her. At which point I handed her a cheque for the full amount (including annual leave etc) and told her to get out.

So, WIBU to sack her when she turned up for work yesterday? I could cope with all her unpleasantness when directed at me, but always thought she would protect my children and never hurt them?

OP posts:
stickylittlefingers · 04/12/2010 17:07

pantomime - it was the nanny who didn't want the dc to know

mamatomany · 04/12/2010 17:17

She completely messed that situation up, the nanny nobody else.
I wouldn't let her back in the house and I'd also get ready for the flood gates to open, I bet this nanny wasn't half as nice as you think she was and now she's out the door the kids will tell you all the secretes she's made them keep.
Mine included locking us in the car whilst she went to the bank and we couldn't breath, hot day.
Having a party with the other nanny's at our house, no friends the age of any of the 3 DC's.
Not cleaning teeth before bedtime, once a day is enough, mummy is too fussy Hmm

adrenalinejunkie · 04/12/2010 17:34

pantomime she told a little boy not to tell anyone or he would get into really big trouble. This is a shocking thing to say to a child from anyone let alone a childcare proffessional . promising to call the little boy twice a day is crossing th line too if the nanny wanted contact she should have asked the parents permission first , she sounds like she was far too attached to this child and i would not let her see him again , who knows what she could say to him. i would also ask him if thee are any other secrets she has asked him to keep and inform the school she is to have no contact with him whatsoever.

im sorrry you have ben put in this position , it must be very hard to know what to do for the best but you have definately done the right thing.

altinkum · 04/12/2010 17:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

purplepidjbauble · 04/12/2010 17:45

Perhaps she was such a good Nanny she has had to go to the North Pole urgently to look after all the baby elves because their nanny is ill? And her leaving card can be posted to "nanny name" c/o Father Christmas, The North Pole...

That would explain why she had to leave in a hurry, and saves the real explanation for when your DCs have the emotional maturity to deal with it Xmas Wink

pantomimecow · 04/12/2010 17:51

You don't think the change in attitiude was more likely to be because she was leaving?

altinkum · 04/12/2010 18:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Blondeshavemorefun · 04/12/2010 18:12

she has behaved very unprofessionally and you are right to have given her notice

-all im saying is that if she was that bad then why keep her almost another 18mths from being pregnant till jan 2011

yes he had a secret and felt pressurized but maybe he also felt sad and confused that his long time carer was going - hence bad behavior at school

JustKeepSparkling · 04/12/2010 18:21

Filly - remember AIBU can attract interesting responses that do not in any way reflect normal opinion.

You have not been unreasonable, if anything too reasonable in keeping her on.

I don't see that you have to give her a ref at all really and would be amazed if she put you down on her CV (though explaining a 4.5yr gap in employment will be hard for her) risking you telling a potential employer how she really was, esp at the end.

And as for how she spoke to you, just that one comment, i can't think of anyone in my life that could say that to me and me think it was reasonable behaviour, DH would certainly get short shrift!!
And our Nanny would never dream of speaking to me like that.

I hope DS is ok whatever you decide to tell him/how you deal with it.

Feelingsensitive · 04/12/2010 18:31

YANBU although I have to wonder why you didn't get rid of her before.

SauvignonBlanche · 04/12/2010 18:33

I can't believe you had her for 4.5 yrs!
What are you going to do about a reference?

Indaba · 04/12/2010 18:43

Legally you are obliged to give a reference but it all it HAS to say is that you confirm she was employed by you, that her role was nanny and she was employed full-time (or what ever her hours were) from x date to y date.

You are not obliged to say or do anything else.

If someone one calls you and asks for more detail you are perfectly able to decline to discuss further.

(but post on employment threads to double check..haven't practised HR in UK for a number of years).

Generally I would ALWAYS say please don't bottle out of giving someone a bad reference if someone deserves a bad reference (but am not getting into an opinion her whether she does or not).

Good luck

PamelaFlitton · 04/12/2010 18:51

Oh my Christ, what an absolute freak. YANBU!

She wouldn't have lasted that long with me. Not only would I fire her, I would also get her blacklisted by telling everyone I know how terrible she is.

FattyArbuckel · 04/12/2010 18:56

I would be careful about the emotional impact of your nanny leaving like this on your children.

I would let them say goodbye in supervised circumstances.

Eurostar · 04/12/2010 19:05

I think you have been very naive to imagine that someone with the issues you describe was a safe person to form very close bonds with your DC. Why on earth did you keep on someone who was vile about you behind your back? Fear? Guilt? Laziness? I would talk to a professional about how to best support your DS through this separation and tease out more about what exactly happened to make him alternately loving and violent to the girls at school.

It sounds like she is going to seriously suffer now having formed far too close an attachment to your DS, she may have a breakdown and if you can afford to help her I'd be paying for some therapy for her to help ensure that this doesn't all come to an even nastier end.

GiddyPickle · 04/12/2010 19:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Fillybuster · 04/12/2010 19:42

Oh dear :( Thank you for all the feedback, both supportive and slightly more critical. I think most of it is quite fair, actually.

(And thanks for being ultra-supportive JKS :) )

The main question appears to be, 'why did you keep her on for the last 12 months after you realised there were problems?'. In short, we decided to find a replacement in November 2009 because for a couple of months she had been very negative to us and the kids but after 2 months searching had failed to find anyone good. Please remember I was in the early stages of pregnancy and working full time at this point, too. Then she came bouncing back in January 2010 after her xmas break, full of beans and being ultra-positive, saying how her new years resolution had been to stay upbeat. And we decided that we should give her a second chance. Now that might have been foolish (and with hindsight it obviously was), but her improved behaviour continued well into the summer, as far as we could tell, and yes, it was convenient not to change nanny at the point I was about to have a baby.

Yes, I'm sure that she is now suffering, and I feel bad about it, but not bad enough to pay for counselling. Imo, any issues she needs to address stem from well before this job.

Yes, we had a lot of good times and she was a good nanny for much of the 4.5 years...and I aim to ensure that the dcs have good memories of those times.

But no, we're not going to have any proper goodbyes, unless my DS starts really asking to see her, in which case I will consider it carefully.

I'm just worried now about what else she might have been saying about us to other nannies/parents...she was pretty unpleasant about them when speaking to me (one of the things I was very concerned about).

OP posts:
5DollarShake · 04/12/2010 19:51

YANBU. However - I have to ask. Why didn't she have a good word to say about you behind your backs, and why was she so vile about you? It's very odd behaviour if you've never been anything but nice and supportive of her.

That along would have had me wanting to get rid ages ago - being nice to an employer and yet her constantly being totally ungrateful and rude.

5DollarShake · 04/12/2010 19:52

That should be - being nice to an employee...

Fillybuster · 04/12/2010 19:59

I don't know, 5DollarShake, but she never seemed to have a nice word to say about most people, so I sort of swallowed it. I only discovered she was badmouthing me in the past 12 months, although its been going on for a long time.

I think I'm a pretty good employer - very good a birthdays, lots of additional annual leave (because dh and I get more than contractually agreed with nanny and we never ask her to be here if we are), flexible about hours, never complained about paying for sick leave, paid for taxis home when weather bad at end of week (she used our car during the week, public transport on Fri afternoons), paid taxi to work Monday mornings, bought lots of biscuits/cakes for her tea, always checked she had enough to eat etc.

Obviously I did something very wrong, somewhere, but I suspect my big offence was to be able to get pregnant in front of her...looking back, that's where the trouble started. And yes, I think I conveniently 'forgot' her telling me in great detail about the labour pains she was suffering from when I had DD in hospital....Blush

OP posts:
5DollarShake · 04/12/2010 20:04
Shock
JustKeepSparkling · 04/12/2010 20:45

She sounds a bit bunny boiler really, what's that film?

When did you find out she couldn't have kids? before she started with you? that might have concerned me from the get go, putting herself in a 'child-ful' situation deliberately.

But maybe i'm being harsh there, just thinking if it were me who couldn't have DC i couldn't face spending all day with kids and with more arriving (as would be likely starting with a young family).

MsKalo · 04/12/2010 20:59

Her behaviour is worrying and be careful she doesn't try to contact your child when he is at school etc... Is she part of an agency, can you report get behaviour? She should not be workin with children at all and I worry for the next child she looks after

A1980 · 04/12/2010 21:01

Jesus Christ! I would have sacked her when you found out she was bad mouthing you. I'd have told her, if you don't like us, leave.

I don't know why people put up with this, they are not part of the family, you PAY them to do a job.

I used to babysit some children when I was a teenager and I often arrived at the house to take over from the nanny. Most of the time, the mum was unloading the dishwahser, making the kids' tea, etc while the nanny sat on her arse with a cup of coffee. I must be missing something.

I hope you will refuse to provide her with a reference?

pigletmania · 04/12/2010 22:16

OMG what a nightmare, no YANBU, what a total headcase. Your ds comes first not some nanny with serious issues.