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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to have sacked my nanny? (Be warned, this is probably a bit of a rant!)

115 replies

Fillybuster · 04/12/2010 14:44

OK, its a done deal now, but I'd appreciate your feedback regardless...sorry this is a bit long:

Background: I have 3 dcs: DS 5. DD1 nearly 3, DD2 5 months

We had our nanny for 4.5 years: she looked after DS1 full-time from 8 months; took a break during the second part of my maternity leave with DD1 then came back 4 days a week when DD1 was 9 months. When I was pregnant with DD2 we agreed she would work full time until DD2 was 3 months and DD1 started nursery, then reduced hours until Christmas and would probably stop around then.

Although our nanny was great with the dcs - she clearly loved them and they loved her - she is a challenging person with some 'issues', particularly with anger management and emotional maturity. These have caused some problems during her time with us, but on the whole we've let a lot of things go. In particular, we were aware (from a lot of people) that she didn't have a good word to say about us behind our backs - in particular, she was vile about me.

Recently she has been pretty unpleasant to my face, too. I liked being told when DD2 was 10 days old that "there's no reason for you to be tired, all you do is sit around on your arse feeding the baby" Shock....and I had just made her lunch! She has always been slightly over-involved with DS1 in particular, calling him "her boyfriend" and "the love of her life", but I put that down to being very loving....

Aaaanyway....

We gave her formal notice at the end of last week that we didn't have a job for her from January. She's known it for a while, but we wanted to confirm. She begged us not to tell the DCs as "she couldn't cope with them knowing". We agreed that we would all tell them together during her last week.

I was aware that she was telling everyone at the school gates, as various mums had been in touch, but was fine with that, as long as me DCs didn't find out.

On Thursday DS's school called and asked me to come in for an urgent meeting. The meeting was with the Headmistress and his class teacher (Year 1) and both were very concerned. Apparently his behaviour had changed "alarmingly" since Monday, and although it was only 3 days, the change was so noticeable, and so out of character that they felt that had to call me in. This was the same child who had an overwhelmingly positive review at Parents Evening 2 weeks ago, so something was clearly very wrong. Amongst other things he had punched a Yr 4 girl in the playground on Wednesday for no reason and had been trying to kiss and cuddle a group of Yr 5 girls despite them asking him to stop.

His teacher had asked DS if anything was wrong, or if he had any secrets, but he had clammed up and looked terrified. He had told her that he has "no good thoughts" in his head, and couldn't sleep because he was worried :(

They asked if there were any changes going on - I explained the nanny was leaving (they knew....she had told both of them!) but that he didn't know. I started wondering....

On Thursday night I had a long chat with DS about hitting the girl (he said "I felt like I had to hit someone, so I did", but wouldn't tell me why he felt so sad), about how family are there to look after you, how you don't need to have secrets from mummy and daddy (even if someone tell you that you do) etc and then asked him if he had any secrets or if something was making him unhappy. He insisted not.

Then I told him that our nanny was going to be leaving in a few weeks.

He said "I know". I asked him how he knew. He told me that our nanny had told him on Monday but had told him that he absolutely mustn't tell Mummy or Daddy or his teacher that he knew, or he would get into really big trouble. He also told me that she had promised to phone him every morning and every evening, and write every day, and visit him and that when he was big he could go and stay with her. I asked him if this was why he had been so sad at school and he said it was because he wasn't allowed to tell anyone or talk about it.

ShockShockShock[schock]

So in the space of 3 days, my happy, confident, school-loving, gentle DS was compltely changed by the weight of a secret he couldn't cope with. He was very relieved finally to be able to talk about it, and went to bed much happier.

Effectively, she tried to turn DS against his family and prioritised her emotional needs (wanting to be loved more than anyone else) over his.

She only briefly denied it when confronted by DH and myself - demanded that we "bring DS in here right now and have it out with him" - then claimed she had every right to tell whoever she wanted, then claimed we were only sacking her to get out of paying her. At which point I handed her a cheque for the full amount (including annual leave etc) and told her to get out.

So, WIBU to sack her when she turned up for work yesterday? I could cope with all her unpleasantness when directed at me, but always thought she would protect my children and never hurt them?

OP posts:
BearCrimble · 04/12/2010 15:03

That's not your fault though. Don't feel guilty because of the hand life dealt her. She chose to work with children when perhaps it wasn't the wisest choice of career given her history.

Fillybuster · 04/12/2010 15:04

I definitely do not want my DS to make a connection between him "telling" (although he didnt) and something bad happening. He wasn't at all surprised she wasn't here on Friday, and I suspect won't be too bothered for the first few days of next week. After that we'll probably have to talk about it with him....might just tell him that she had decided it was so close to when she left she didn't want to come back again, or something.

Colditz - thats great advice on the reference.

OP posts:
ChippingIn · 04/12/2010 15:07

Please don't tell him she was paid to love him - that would be really, really horrible - it's also not true. You pay a nanny to care for your children, you don't pay them to love them - most nannies love their charges. You would also be setting your son up for a fall with any future paid childcare when you son doesn't feel valued/loved for who he is and thinks it's 'fake' because you are paying them.

I would allow her to visit to say good-bye for the childrens sake. Let them give her their presents and say good bye - IMO you owe your children this. Although she has upset him this past few days, she has loved and looked after him almost all of his life. You can't just rip that away from him, because she has made a mistake.

ClearAndChristmasPresent · 04/12/2010 15:07

Yes, it is okay to feel some compassion for a person, but she is ultimately responsible for how she handles her issues. And she is handling them badly. She sounds unprofessional, and dangerous.

YAdefNBU

In fact, you deserve a bloody medal for not sacking her much earlier.

Don't fudge anything though if someone rings you for a reference. I had the grave misfortune once to hire someone who got glowing references.... which were all lies. The person in question had severe MH issues... which would NOT have been a problem in itself, but she also had a tendency to refuse to take her medication which resulted in actual physical danger for other staff. When I confronted her previous employers, they said that they were just so keen to get rid of her they would have said anything. Hmm

It ended up going to employment tribunals, all sorts.

plupervert · 04/12/2010 15:12

What a cow. Surely a nanny would know what effect that sort of approach would have on a child, which makes me think she did it deliberately. If she did, summary sacking was exactly the right thing to do.

I'm not sure about a goodbye party, though, sorry, ChippingIn (though I totally agree about not saying the nanny was paid to love the DCs). Can she be trusted not to make a scene in a goodbye party?

Fillybuster · 04/12/2010 15:13

You're right, ChippingIn, and I'll skip the paid-to comments, but I don't think we can let this woman back in even to say goodbye...there would be no way of controlling what she says and would probably be very over-emotional, which is more likely to upset DS than her fading off into the background.

We will absolutely not say anything bad about her, though...more, we've already been discussing with DS how much fun it would be to get an aupair in January and how having someone young might be nice for going to the park, playing sports etc. He has already asked if they will do baking and cooking with him, as our nanny always refused :)

OP posts:
BonniePrinceBilly · 04/12/2010 15:19

Yanbu for firing her. But even before I got halfway through the op I was thinking why the fuckity fuck have you kept her on so long? I c
]#a]
489-++*-+

BonniePrinceBilly · 04/12/2010 15:20

sorry a 3 year old is smacking the keys, must log oiffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffv 9945;lfgpom vc mp*-+

ChippingIn · 04/12/2010 15:21

Plupervert - popping around to say good bye and allow the children some closure (horrid american word but you know what I mean) is not a party. It is allowing the children to say good bye. What is she going to do with both parents there? IF she does/says anything mad then they can escort her out and tell the older DS this is partly why she needed to go. A small small risk for a big reward (IMO).

Filly - of course you must do what you think is best, only you know your children :) However, no matter how well he is taking it now, I think he will be better off in the long run if he is allowed to give her his gift and say goodbye to her. He has spent a lot of time with her and suddenly having no contact is harsh. Of course having a young fun au pair sounds great right now and she will do things the old nanny didn't - however, just because you like one person and they're fun - doesn't mean you don't miss someone who has played a huge part in your life for 5 years :(

I do understand it would be hard for you - but personally I would look at it as one of those thing I had to 'suck it up' for and do what is right for the kids and I think this is right.... clearly it's only my opinion! :)

plupervert · 04/12/2010 15:21

Fantastic news that there is something he wants to do with someone new and different.

plupervert · 04/12/2010 15:25

Sorry, ChippingIn, party was the wrong word. Would "meeting" do? Anyway, I guess it depends on whether she can be trusted. I take your point about the closure, but if she uses emotional blackmail or cries hysterically (for example), it could leave an unpleasant impression, and something the little ones could be working through for ages. Again, all depends on Fillybuster's knowledge of the woman, not on either of us! Smile

booyhohoho · 04/12/2010 15:27

sorry but i don't think she should be left in sole charge of chidlren. what rubbish must she be putting in your dc's heads. i think you did absoloutely teh right thing. i would have sacked her when she commented on me sitting on my arse 10 days post partem.

JustKeepSparkling · 04/12/2010 15:38

Gosh Filly, totally not U to sack her, crazy loon!!

How about re leaving presents/closure:

let DS1 make her a card, even choose her a little present, then say you'll post them to her as she's poorly and won't be better before it was time for her to leave anyway?

DD1 too if she's bothered.

You take the carefully wrapped items when they're at school and give them to the charity shop/bin them away from home.

They get the closure, you don't get the potential nasty/weird scene.

I wouldn't be letting her back at all.

And warning school/family/friends that she may try to contact him and all contact must be firmly stopped/forbidden/intervened with.

She's gone, happy memories for DC and move on.

diddl · 04/12/2010 15:41

I would have nothing more to do with her as from now tbh.

The children have already seen her for the last time & so are already getting over her.

A meeting would take them backwards imo.

She doesn´t deserve it & they probably don´t need it.

Nancy66 · 04/12/2010 15:43

You were absolutely right to fire her.

but, like others, did find myself wondering why on earth you thought it was ok to allow somebody you knew was bit unhinged to care for your kids?

MoonUnitAlpha · 04/12/2010 15:44

She sounds awful and you were totally right to get rid!

But a word of caution - did you make her redundant or sack her? Did you follow the right procedures? She sounds like the kind of person who would want to cause you trouble, so just be careful you haven't given her anything to take you to an employment tribunal for.

plupervert · 04/12/2010 15:46

Gross misconduct like that is pretty hard to defend, so summary dismissal should be okay! Imagine having it all come out publicly in a tribunal. Wouldn't that benefit the loony - I mean nanny?!

Nanny0gg · 04/12/2010 15:47

What were her qualifications? Will she try to get another nannying position do you think?
Did you get her from an agency?

ItalianLady · 04/12/2010 15:47

OMG Shock.

I used to be a nanny and have to admit I was a bit stroppy at times (never with the kids) but this just tops anything i have heard on here.

YANBU at all.

You handled it perfectly.

How is your son now?

whatdoiknowanyway · 04/12/2010 16:00

YANBU but please don't underestimate the impact on DC of losing someone who has cared for them for so long. My DD took a long time to get over losing her (wonderful) nanny who cared for her from age 1 until she started full time school.

Saying goodbye properly is very important. We managed this with our nanny (still in touch many years later) but same DD also had big issues aged 6 when her best friend never came back from summer holidays. The family had moved away and her parents chose not to say goodbye to anyone or leave contact details. Presumably their child was OK but mine struggled.

Even a five minute conversation would have helped.(in your case would definitely NOT promise to exchange Christmas cards etc though!)

frgr · 04/12/2010 16:32

She sounds toxic, you were very self controlled from what I can see in your OP Shock

Blondeshavemorefun · 04/12/2010 16:47

i find it really sad that after 4.5yrs as your nanny and caring for your dc from little that it has ended like this :(

this woman has been the main/3rd (after you and dh) carer for your children and there will be emotional ties

i think it will be good for the children to see the nanny and say bye to the nanny (with in your ears and eyes of course )

the only time i say to my 3 not to tell mummy/daddy something is when we make birthday/christmas pressies/cards Grin

you have made the right decision, obv you need to give a ref and by all means put on it,feel free to call me

but

Initially we had planned to replace her a year ago....then I was pregnant and we couldn't find any good candidates, and we didn't want to make too many changes in the DCs lives at the same time....

remember you employed her for nearly 5yrs and couldnt have been all bad as you kept her on

ItalianLady · 04/12/2010 16:51

I think the good memories will be lost when one thinks about how she behaved in more recent times.

pantomimecow · 04/12/2010 16:53

I am shocked by some of these responses.
i guess teh nanny has been talking at the school gates and then worried your DS would get wind of her leaving from someone else and perhaps asked her straight out that's why she has confided in him.
I think you are to blame for putting her and your DC in a very bad position asking the nanny to keep quiet about something so monumental in her and your DCs lives.Why weren't you just straight with your DS???

I hope you Have paid her 4 weeks redundancy pay on top of her notice.i think you were wrong to fire her.What apity you have created a situation where someone so important in your DCs lives has left them under such unhappy circumstances.

sailorsgal · 04/12/2010 17:04

I agree with blondeshavemorefun.

I am surprised you knew she had ishoos but kept her on as long as you did. She should have been replaced ages ago.

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