to think that closing all our local libraries and expecting volunteers to take over and fund them is a rubbish 'big idea'??

[snail1973]

Bucks CC are proposing (well it is out for consultation but we all know what that means - it's a done deal) to close 14 libraries (out of 21). They are asking the local communities if they want to take them over.

I am really cross about this. Libraries are so vital for families with young children and the elderly. Just handing them over to the community and saying "there you go, you find the money and the volunteers to run them" is doomed to failure and so yet again the kids and the old will loose vital services.

And don't even get me started on SureStart (also gone in our area).

Are libraries being closed elsewhere in the country too?

Happymumofone you seem to be actually keen to close libraries, and stop all of the disgusting freeloading that goes on in them.

Some people choose not to work - what about all of those who want to and have no internet access? Most jobs these days are advertised solely on the net and accept applications that way. You have closed that door for many of the worst of people.

And you think that books are wasted on under 3s - that says it all really.

I am sure that you will be happy with the society that you are trying to build - with the libraries all closed and sold off - I find it upsetting and disgusting.

I would rather they started charging for the use of libraires rather than close them down, also library usage has fallen in recent years so it does make sense to reduce the number of them if their usage is lower

ISNT, I never said I thought books were wasted on under three's but in times of hardship then yes I would rather spend money elsewhere than on free libraries. Social services, respite care etc are far more worthy causes.

Libraries can still remain with volunteers or at a charge whereas many other vital servives dont have this choice.

can i just say, I haven't read the whole thread yet so apols if someone else has said this, but aside from the arguments about whether such drastic cuts are really necessary, and aside from the whole issue of undervaluing the skills of professionals who currently run libraries, has anybody thought about how they'll feel when the local (volunteer) busybody - or maybe even your mum - is manning the counter and you want to get a book out about relationship guidance / irritable bowel syndrome / David Hasselhoff?

just a thought...

This idea sounds like it has been put forward by someone with no idea about what running a library actually entails.

You need an MA to be a qualified librarian for a reason. If it was just about stamping books then yes anyone could do it and volunteers would be fine, but its not.

The fact is that Libraries are an incredibly important resource, a sign of a civilised society and a vital part of many communities.

...and I'm not a Librarian BTW, I just use our library service a lot.

Basically if you shut our local library you lose:

• Studying space that is heavily used by a range of people
• Jobseekers club and access to internet
• Community space of 1 hall used by a huge variety of groups and classes etc
• Reference facility for people studying
• Good range of large print books for people who need them
• Access to all the other books
• Facility to link up with all other libraries in the borough to access their books as well
• Our library is also a "children's centre" and runs a host of activities for children of all ages
• Homework club for children aged 8 and up with people to help out

HappyMum, reading with children has loads of benefits to their social and emotional development as well as their intellectual development. That was the evidence based reasoning behind setting up bookstart www.bookstart.org.uk/show/feature/About-us/History-of-Bookstart

Why it matters is that without it, more children will end up requiring additional more intensive, more expensive support later on in life. libraries are a key venue for supporting bookstart and access to free books for families who can't afford or wouldn't prioritise books because maybe they didn't benefit from them as a child.

Maybe the key is to be more creative about where library services and sure start type services can be put in the same places. Community hubs for all ages where you can get a book, go to a baby massage or breastfeeding support group, go to a tea dance, and surf the internet. Actually, or local library does do virtually all these - but not the tea dances!

One problem with shutting libraries is that some of the services that they offer will have to be provided by other means/outlets. Will the cost of providing these services eg internet access to those who don't have it at home be cheaper then running libraries, I have my doubts

I think that in this brave new world the idea is that the services lost when the libraries close won't be replaced. if people can't afford internet access or there is nowhere locally providing it then tough etc etc

but at 1% of a council budget how much money do you really think it is going to save?

As for you agreeing with someone - you can both be wrong happymumofone, books are cheap, mass produced paperbacks maybe cheap. Try looking at other types of books that a library holds espcially in the reference section and thye aren't cheap mass produced and are beyond peoples means.

people who can't afford internet access will be penalalised for not being ableo to use the device, then they will pay more for services. Having internet available in libraries means they can get access and pay by the hour to use and save money on services

To add to ISNT's list;

• Somewhere quiet to study for children from, shall we say chaotic? homes
• Access to education courses
• English learning tools for those who do not have English as a first language
• Access to difficult to find specialist books
• Access to latest journals/periodicals for those who couldn't afford to subscribe (eg. those who need the information for work)
• Copies of local newspapers from the past

In fact, let's go for a comprehensive list shall we?

So here's ISNT's list. Everyone else, copy the lists from the post and add your own. Maybe then people will see how valuable libraries are.

• Studying space that is heavily used by a range of people
• Jobseekers club and access to internet
• Community space of 1 hall used by a huge variety of groups and classes etc
• Reference facility for people studying
• Good range of large print books for people who need them
• Access to all the other books
• Facility to link up with all other libraries in the borough to access their books as well
• Our library is also a "children's centre" and runs a host of activities for children of all ages
• Homework club for children aged 8 and up with people to help out

we have lost our fire station already, one county town fire station and three others in the county are to be shut.

Our Libraries still stand.

The factory round the corner no longer stands it burnt to the grownd when the next town fire brigade where on the M40 sorting a car crash with a lorry that had crashed at 5am

council staff certainly not being offered voluntary redunancy, early retirment but there isn't any money for paying staff to leave and I would be suprised if other councisl have money for this, ealry retirment and natural wastage is being used first - the cuts are over 4 years and the amount can be divided over the four years first.

where could money be saved? Research has been done to say that lighting the streets doesn't prevent crime and not having streets lite wouldn't impact on crime. I would be interested to know whether between 11pm and 6am lights out had any impact and how much money would be saved and whether that would amount to in % of savings year on year. A burgulr with a tourch would rather stand out as at the moemnt they use street lights to seee where they are breaking into at night, I actually wonder if it would reduce this type of crime?. Motorways have already started this program to save money.

Looking at wastage within councils would also be another area to save money - meetings with lunches provided - why everyone else takes ina packed lucnh or pays, why can't council workers do the same why shoudl council tax pay for thier lunch? Espically when it is a morning meeting and then they have lunch before retunring to work int he afternoon, they could stop on there way back to the office or bring soemthing from home.

There is horrendous waste in local Government, I help do their audits and it makes me so angry when I see some of the things they spend their money on.

I had some ideas upthread about other savings. Why not hold parliament in some meeting rooms in watford or somewhere and let the houses of parliament? Or charge people to go around them - I'm sure the restaurants and bars would be extremely popular. People might even pay to use their extensive private library... That might generate enough funds to save the libraries.

Of course there are choices that can be made. Shutting the libraries, flogging the land for a quick buck is a short-sighted and foolish move, which will have an enormous impact on communities.

it doesn't have to be library v firestation, or library v education

it could be libary v lunch budgets, or library v lighting budget

ir just library v wastage on grand scale

please realise that when people say they want the libraries saved and cuts else where - it doesn't mena we want to cut firestations or other vital services and there are other ways of making cuts

cat64 there is at least one person on this thread who is very keen to close the libraries, on the basis of why should anyone get anything for free, and people can buy their own books as they're cheap. Ideological reasons, if you like. I am sure that view is shared by plenty of people on the right of our political arena.

I have been to a govt run thing lately and it was what I considered to be quite extravagent, with the lunch and everything, during the course of the day they apologised for it not being up to the usual standards ie in a posh hotel

Totally agree that there is plenty of unnecessary spending that can be reined in.

Well said Octopus.

Libraries are the last free educational resource available to all.

They are vital to the poor, in particular children and the elderly. Vital.

Also green, no? Not buying stuff, re-using...