to think that closing all our local libraries and expecting volunteers to take over and fund them is a rubbish 'big idea'??

[snail1973]

Bucks CC are proposing (well it is out for consultation but we all know what that means - it's a done deal) to close 14 libraries (out of 21). They are asking the local communities if they want to take them over.

I am really cross about this. Libraries are so vital for families with young children and the elderly. Just handing them over to the community and saying "there you go, you find the money and the volunteers to run them" is doomed to failure and so yet again the kids and the old will loose vital services.

And don't even get me started on SureStart (also gone in our area).

Are libraries being closed elsewhere in the country too?

OK, so we all know cuts have to be made but I really feel we must fight for our libraries.

If we don't the government will just close them all and say the community didn't want them because we didn't fight back.

Lessons for us all - keep using your local libraries if you value it and keep a close eye/ear out for any signs of reorganisation

Our libraries are run by paid staff backed up by volunteers. There is one lady who runs 2 libraries both opened 3 days per week. I work in technical services where I open the boxes of books input them on the computer and sort out any reserved books, I do 3 trolley loads of reserved books every day that I am in so the library is still popular and always busy.

It's utterly sickening to think of libraries closing. I've always been massively grateful for what they do. I do recognise that these are simplistic suggestions but here are my thoughts -

I would be prepared to pay to use the library, either per loan or for an annual ticket. I read so much that I must borrow over 100 books per year - so it's saving me at least £500 per year personally at the moment. Obviously, this should be income related. I can afford (just) to pay, so I'm willing to do so. Low income families should receive exemptions.

I've also been into our local library to offer to donate books - they never used to accept donations but are changing their policy in light of the cuts. If we all did this, surely within communities we could at least keep the popular fiction section and children's sections replenished.. maybe volunteers could then sort and catalogue these books as part of their role.

mousesma Unfortunately it is true. It was announced recently in the Bookseller that publishers are trying to block libraries from allowing borrowers to download ebooks unless they go to the library to do it.

www.thebookseller.com/news/132751-ba-backs-pa-over-e-lending-cilip-calls-it-restrictive.html

If anyone has a link to the posts Spidookly mentioned, I would like to read them.

they sold of the school playing fields and that has been regretted ever since, byt those that remeber, for those that don't remember you will have lost out on the sporting feste that was sold to make money - short sighted

I am afraid that most of the day to day work of running a public library [dispensing books, taking fines, wiping up wee, putting books back on shelves) can be done by just about anyone - and because the rates of pay are so dire, the existing staff may not always be (ahem) the most dynamic thrusting enterprising individuals.
You need a "way with children" to do the various reading clubs - not any great information management ability.

If people used their libraries intelligently they could be a great resource.

...and finally you have the old conundrum that it seems to be the well heeled, educated rather than Tracey Chav who frequent the library (ignoring the hoards of pensioners and tramps who are there for the heat and lighting) - ie is it really a good use of public money?? [no there aren't any stats to back up that last one]

spiralqueen that is a real shame. It's not clear though from the article whether this is done deal or if they are still negotiating (possibly i'm misinterpreting). My local library certainly doesn't seem to be aware of these restrictions yet.

Its such a silly postion the PA have taken, if the e-book auto deletes after 2 weeks then it really is the same as borrowing a book for 2 weeks and returning it.

People who would have bought the book as a paper copy will still buy as a e-book copy if they are that way inclined, but it is very unlikely if you are borrowing a book from a library that you would buy it instead if you couldn't borrow it.

But even I am enraged by Brent council spending millions renovating libraries last year - only to decide to close them this year

Sorry just thought more on this and am now really confused.

How would it even work to download the e-book from the library instead of to my own PC?

Currently I need to register my Sony Reader as a device on my machine in order for me to transfer DRM content from my PC to the Reader.

Would I need to take my Reader and USB cable to the library and connect my Reader and register it to the library PC instead.

Wouldn't connecting my Reader to a shared PC leave it vunerable to picking up viruses.

Can I actually have the Reader registered to 2 PCs or does it mean that I can only have DRM content from the library (i.e. borrowed books) or DRM content from my own PC i.e. Purchased books?

Wouldn't you need a lot of support staff to help people download these books?

Milly - it was here:

Voluntary work or lose benefits

And it WAS Takver, search for his posts.

I can't believe I remembered that from a month ago! That's how impressed I was.

What do people think of a movement to refuse to do this "voluntary" work that is destroying other people's jobs?

YANBU. Sorry to hear you've lost SureStart too.

I work in a library although not in a Library Assistant or Library role. It's in a very deprived area, high levels of unemployment, low literacy levels, high number of non-English speaking families.
The library is packed, every day. It provides all the thigs already mentioned. There are homework clubs, internet lessons (and seeing as 80% of Jobseekers Allowance claims will be apparently dealt with online and more and more companies do online applications, these computers are essential). The library also has two community rooms, which are used for playgroups, a coffee morning, bridge club, yoga, art groups and community meetings.
The library staff do document checking for benefit claimants as there are no local housing offices to do it (and the other option is a journey into town at £3.50 return)
There is also a return to work scheme run by the libraries for long term unemployed, the baby and toddler sessions which help literacy, family bonding and have picked up mums with PND and got them help. There are debt advisors here.

A library is not just stamping books out and reshelving them. It's a genuine community hib (and our libraries are open between 9am and 9pm, 6 or 7 days a week). Volunteers are a nice add on, to do reading with little children in addition to the service provided but not to replace the wealth of services which are very much valued and needed in the communities.

Thankfully, my local authority is very committed to libraries and will not be shutting them.

I'm going to go against the grain here.

Libraries were an excellent community resource when they were built.

I dont think they have the same value in modren society.

Books now cost a vastly smaller % of average incomes than in the past. We live in a world of amazon, ebay, freecycle and charity (book)shops on every High Street. You can now buy discounted books in the same shop as your bread. The world has moved forward, libraries need to adapt or flounder.

Access to education is much wider now than in the 18th century. Schools, colleges and Universities now educate people, who would previously only had access to knowledge through libraries.

Modern libraries are used for free internet access but surely the move to make sure all housholds have their own braodband is more useful than maintaining a resource which is only suitable for some. When both my DCs were babies, I had no internet so went to the library to log on. I went over 20 times but it was not a good experience. If the baby made a noise (as they are likely to do) I would get evil looks from other users. There was no toilet for changing. No designated breastfeeding space. I wasn't even allowed to use a bottle as they had a 'no food or drink' rule! After reading for a bit I would have liked to be able to eat or drink myself but I'd have to go out in the cold for that. I tried a good few different ones and found them all hostile environments.

I also think, that when you look at the range of books/CDs/DVDs available, you have to question the value to society of providing titles which have little educational value and are just pulp fiction/popular entertainment. There is a very small proportion of high-quality non-fiction.

As for libraries being useful for doing homework, I did this as a child, but this was before the age of after-school clubs. Surely it would be better for schools to stay open later and provide better libraries and study space themselves? do we really need 2 seperate buildings/institutions?

I think that in the long-term libraries would work well if they amalgamated with other community resources such as schools/community centres/sure start centres etc, providing community projects (eg delivering books to deprived families/ESOL classes etc) that target those most in need rather than the middle classes who see them as a taken for granted freebie paid for by everyone else.

"rather than the middle classes who see them as a taken for granted freebie paid for by everyone else."

Um the "middle classes" pay tax.

" think that in the long-term libraries would work well if they amalgamated with other community resources such as schools/community centres/sure start centres etc, providing community projects (eg delivering books to deprived families/ESOL classes etc)"

All done for free by volunteers presumably?

So the middle classes are too shit to deserve libraries they can use, but it's OK for them to be pressed into service looking after the poor.

Universal services != for the middle classes

If things are too shit for middle class people to use, why then are they good enough for people on even lower incomes?

darlene they are still an excelllent community respite. I've met plenty of local mums there at stay and play sessions and story time. Much more relaxed than playgroups. I can pick up local info there and despite the fact that books are cheap, I regularly take DS to get books - it's better than sitting online at home alone. Gets us both out of the house.

You're taking a view which is not empathetic. If you used your local library you'd feel differently I'm sure.

Resource not respite. Bloody iPhone.

I'm a qualifiedlibrarian. It's a shame people seem to think the qualification is useless.

Only the completely ignorant and out of touch think it's useless.

Good librarians are worth their weight in gold.

Iggly- I used to take DD to 'bounce and rhyme' at out local library every week. It was horrid.

There were steep stairs at the front so you'd have to leave your DC outside and go up and in yourself to ask them to open the disabled door round the back. (They always got huffy at this reasonable request)

Once inside there were 40+ parents and 0-3s squeezed into one tiny corner. It was havock, with the 2+s trampling the tiny babies. Mums who tried chatting to each other (to make friends) were actually shushed with 'you are here for your child to listen to US, not too talk amongst yourselves'
I tried another local library's session but it was much the same.

Oh and the local supermarket has more info on its community board than any of the libraries I've been to.

well darlene that's a case for improving libraries surely not getting rid of them!

spidookly, I am blushing here.

I'm not sure I have much to add, other than to say that I am a woman, honest (always post on mooncup threads!!!)

But you are SO mannish!

Ha ha, I can't believe I thought you were a man when you're a regular on mooncup threads :o

What an eejit.

Actually, the one thing I would add that Paul Foot wrote a brilliant book 'The Vote: How it was won, and how it was undermined" which is well worth a read at this point in history for those of us who are wondering exactly what we are meant to do about all of this when who-ever we vote for we get shafted.

Ah, and for those earlier up the thread who say 'books are so cheap to buy now', fortunately I can get it from our library, since it costs £20 to buy new. Yes, maybe you can buy the latest Katie Price book cheaply from a supermarket, but if you want to read history, politics, economics (in fact all the things that the government would probably rather you didn't read), it don't come cheap.