to think that closing all our local libraries and expecting volunteers to take over and fund them is a rubbish 'big idea'??

[snail1973]

Bucks CC are proposing (well it is out for consultation but we all know what that means - it's a done deal) to close 14 libraries (out of 21). They are asking the local communities if they want to take them over.

I am really cross about this. Libraries are so vital for families with young children and the elderly. Just handing them over to the community and saying "there you go, you find the money and the volunteers to run them" is doomed to failure and so yet again the kids and the old will loose vital services.

And don't even get me started on SureStart (also gone in our area).

Are libraries being closed elsewhere in the country too?

I think we should stop paying the Cabinet. I know loads of competent people who would be prepared to run the country on a voluntary basis.

Yes, I'm sure there are old people who'd like to be able to stay warm in cosy Westminster buildings and chat about policies over some tea.

And it's not like there's even any qualification needed for Cabinet - ANYONE can do it.

Even tax exiles who don't even have a horse in this whole UK race since they don't really live here.

They've recently installed self-check-out machines in our local library (or robot librarians as I call them). All the staff are under orders NOT to issue or return books to anyone - to force them into using the robots which I assume is as a precursor to them sacking 90% of the staff and remaining with one poor bugger on minimum wage whose job it is to just do the shelving constantly.

Irks me no end because I do actually know what goes IN to library work since I did it myself for years off and on, and it's a heck of a lot more than just shoving the books back on the shelves.

Does anyone agree that it could be a good idea to start a thread where people can post the cuts that are happening in their area so we have some idea of the scale and focus of cuts nationally? I'm a bit of a newbie and not sure how it could be approached practically so I thought I'd ask if more experienced MNers thought it would be useful/do-able

It seems we can bail out banks, run swanky arts festivals, keep the rich rich, but not afford libraries. We are sinking.....

spiralqueen I'm not sure that's true. At my library at least you can still download books over the internet.

i have no idea where they are going to find the people to work in this Big Society

between paying off student debts, serving one wage to pay for childcare and being unable to genuinely afford to have more than 3 children, keeping up with the mortgage, looking at our lack of money to fund any private pension....

who the feck has TIME in this society to go and volunteer for these things? they'll surely rely on SAHPs and retired folk? i don't know anyone who ISN'T struggling under the huge pressure of many conflicting duties right now, i genuinely don't know a single person who would be free to go and work in a library for free.... even my semi-retired parents are having to go back to work (dad too ill to do more than 2 days, mum having gone back into the workforce after 20 years out of it so they can continue to pay the mortgage)

as far as my social circle goes, this is such an unrealistic idea i'm sitting here laughing, really. how clueless about how things are for ordinary people!

I thought the Government had said that they were going to make unemployed people take on voluntary work or they will lose their benefits.

So I assume they will sack lots of people and then make them work for benefits.

Where I work you can only download ebooks at home, not in the library-our broadband just couldn't take it

frgr - you forgot looking after our oap parents aswell - this goverment has said only this week we must work and look after our parents when they get old, perhps we can wheeel them to the library and work at the same time

frgr- second time in two days I've totally agreed with your posts.

This argument is going off on the wrong tangent.

Unfortunately, the choices that have to be made are not emotional, but economical. No government wants to piss off its electorate. That's just silly thinking. This government has to piss off the electorate, and don't be fooled into thinking that there's a better alternative.

By all means protest about the things that matter to you, but be under no illusions. Unless we get this sorted out, and fast, we will lose our global credibility, our creditworthiness, and any hope for the future of our kids.

It's tough that we're born into a generation that has to pay back a massive deficit. But we all are guilty of creating the deficit in the first place, by means of easy credit. The bankers could not have placed us in this position without our complicit acceptance.

If we don't pay back what we owe, we'll be in shtuck forever. So get some backbone, stop whining, and remember the blitz

It is all so sad but true. Libraries are to be one of many incredibly useful and valued public services that this Govt is willing to sacrifice to their goals of reducing the size and cost of local govt.
Basically Councils are not legally obliged to provide libraries, nor sports centres for that matter and many, many other services we will come to see stopped or drastically reduced over the next few years.
I work for a Council and there has been an exercise done (to help inform the cuts to come) whereby your service/function was scored according to how much of its work was statutory (i.e required by law) - not good news if the score was low...

Bites tongue.

It wouldn't have anything to do with the valuable real estate many libraries occupy, would it? It may only save a small amount over many years, but think how much can be raised by selling off or renting the buildings and land.

What price civilisation?

What is making me really cross is that once libraries are gone we won't ever get them back.

So it's all very well to say we have to save money so just suck it up. But what will happen is that all the services will be concentrated in urban areas because they have the highest populations and the countryside will end up with nothing.

No government is going to reverse this kind of decision. Once they are gone, they're gone. :(

If having a local library is so important to you is it not worth volunteering for an hour a fortnight or so to keep it open?

I don't believe libraries should do more than lend books - some have turned into play-centres.

Keep paid librarians for large unicipal libraries where users require specilaist help in acessing archives tec but quite honestly in my local library most of the users are just in to borrow the latest best-seller (for which there is usually a 2 month waiting list).

they don't need a Graduate Librarian to stamp out their latest Victoria Hislop!

(My comment was not a response to Desiderata)

I'm so sad to see this happen. I never thought I'd see the day. It's so short-sighted.

"Unfortunately, the choices that have to be made are not emotional, but economical. No government wants to piss off its electorate. That's just silly thinking. This government has to piss off the electorate, and don't be fooled into thinking that there's a better alternative."

That's total nonsense. There are alternatives. They could make other choices. It's no secret - they're Tories, they believe in small government, These kinds of cuts are ideological. To pretend otherwise is naive if you don't understand it - or blatant propaganda if you do.

It's just not that easy though is it?

There would be lots of volunteers in the first year as everyone is keen, but as years go by it will become hard to find people with the time to commit to things like this.

Our area does have a really good community spirit but we recently struggled to find anyone to take over as Brown Owl to keep Brownies going, similar issues at Cubs, and it took ages to find someone to chair the local PTA too.

There are an awful lot of worthy causes that need volunteers to run them, and not an infinite supply of people who have time to spare.

And many people are now taking on extra jobs where they can to supplement lower incomes as a result of redundancies or reduced working hours.

"Keep paid librarians for large unicipal libraries where users require specilaist help in acessing archives ..."
I think you'll find that smaller libraries would normally be operated by library assistants not librarians. They are predominantly women and part time workers - the group most likely to be adversely affected by the job cuts.
I would be most surprised if a lot of the well meaning volunteers would be able to cope with modern library systems let alone information enquiries, judging by the difficulties so many volunteers have with tills in charity shops.

It is misleading to say this is just about graduate librarians; many library staff have years of experience but no degree, and this experience will be lost.

Obviously there are a lot of tasks that librarians have to cover in all libraries that are more complex than stamping books. A lot of legal requirements have to be met, and I don't see how that can be done with volunteers. I suppose legal requirements will have to be dropped if the library service can no longer meet them.

desiderata - even bankers didn't understand the complex financial products they were trading which went so badly wrong. So it's hard to see how you can blame the rest of us for their fuck-ups. They didn't ask us if it was OK to play silly buggers.

Oddly enough it appears to be the rest of us who are paying for their errors, though. Maybe Goldman Sachs would like to donate a few quid to keeping libraries open? Or that lovely chap who used to run RBS?

Graduate Librarians don't stamp any books, sausage.

Your ignorance is disheartening to say the least.

I think that it is very sad.

I think this is a good example of councils looking for "easy cuts" rather than radical overhauls of how they deliver services/pay cuts for executives etc.