to think that closing all our local libraries and expecting volunteers to take over and fund them is a rubbish 'big idea'??

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Bucks CC are proposing (well it is out for consultation but we all know what that means - it's a done deal) to close 14 libraries (out of 21). They are asking the local communities if they want to take them over.

I am really cross about this. Libraries are so vital for families with young children and the elderly. Just handing them over to the community and saying "there you go, you find the money and the volunteers to run them" is doomed to failure and so yet again the kids and the old will loose vital services.

And don't even get me started on SureStart (also gone in our area).

Are libraries being closed elsewhere in the country too?

closing the libraries will only piss off that part of the electorate that the Tories can easily afford to piss off.
This news has made me cry and cry and cry. I honestly don't remember crying so long and hard about something in a very long time.
The damage that will be done to communities will be huge and serious and lasting.
I would never have got my education without my local library and I can assure you that it will affect huge numbers of the children/young people I teach who will be find it very much harder to do their homework.
don't worry, though, it will only affect the poor and vulnerable ones. so who cares, really?

The narrow-minded ignorance of some of these posts just makes me despair.

The government has no choice.. boo hoo.. it must close libraries.

What codswallop, you gullible fools. If you ever really thought that in the first place.

Tis' shit but some people will have to step up...I will. I work part time from home and DD will begin nursery next year...so I guess I will volnteer in some capacity.

Moaning about it won't change anything. I never voted the bastards in but I wont let them shut our library.

If you've some education and some morals...then you ought to help out whether you agree with it or not. I certainly don't agree with it but there's too much of the failure about so many attitudes today.

It doesn't have to be done. That is the government line, the well-peddled sound-bite messages that some people just seem to believe without any serious questioning.

Of course there are alternatives. If people question loudly enough, lo, alternatives will be found.

Libraries - nice but not sustainable? They are tiny small fry in the great bubbling pot of public funding.

Cat, I think there is a great difference between cutting facilities such as swimming, which the council are not legally obliged to provide, and cutting library provision, which has historically been a legal requirement. People fought for public libraries and the NHS.

We have had libraries and laws ensuring their existence for 160 years - they were a major part of how ordinary people ensured their rights to education and radically changed the social structure of Britain. Surestart on the other hand, didn't exist in my local area when my DD was little, and she is only 9 now. Closing libraries or charging for essential NHS services is a major change to people's historic rights in a way that reducing other services is not.

Pointy....people won't question loud enough...they're too busy with their own lives.

Thankfully I haven't heard of anything like this up here. I love my library and use it all the time, to try to ensure it's survival. My children are all members and we go regularly- it is one of the only council resources we use, and I think it is a great idea that everyone has access to book and literature. Books are so valuable to children (and adults) I'd hate to see it go

ivykaty44, good point. my parents are still able bodied (just about!) enough to work at least some part of the week. but they're coming up for mid-60s, and have no pension to speak of (dad's was devalued even though he's paid into it religiously all his life - was always a big thing allocating his weekly pay into it and often pointed it out when he was handing out pocket money - he made us save 50% of it in our children's bank accounts... mum has no NI contributions due to being a housewife, no pension in her name. they're royally fucked, basically)... but i know in a few years that between student debt, saving for kids, maybe even putting some cash away for a pension for me (snort - chancewould be nice)... mortgage payments, childcare payments... christ, it makes my head explode.

and we're not even in any debt! we've been frugal all our lives, and this Big Society is utterly outside my understanding or the ability of anyone in my immediate circle.

having said all of the above, i do believe that libraries offer a fantastic service, my local one is wonderful and it will be a huge loss when (not if) its services have to cut.

still, i keep coming again and again in my head that: the very people who the Tories want to volunteer for this Big Society idea are the very ones who are being stretched to breaking point already. there's only so much slave labour they can force the unemployed to do (which is a different kettle of fish entirely compared to the willing, computer literate they'd be aiming for as volunteers)...

and - NestaFiesta - nice to know someone agrees

Yes, that's what the politicians bank on.

Yes, people will love to work in "nice " libraries. How about the one where I used to cover sometimes (I was usually in a nice one, or a city centre one) where we needed a security guard? It was even more vitally important- often it was the only chance the local kids got to do homework in peace, with the proper resources, but i can't see many volunteers for that.

Would volunteers run the inter library loans service? How about all that research I used to do in the reference library for local hisrotians, journalists and polticians, are we going to just let them roam through the archives by themselves, messing up the thousands of books underground that are centuries old and brought out on request?

How will students find out where the specialised resources for their subject are? How will they know the library is kept up to date with the latest journals?

Closing libraries would be enough to make me take to the streets in protest. I hate buying books - what a waste if you're only going to read them once. And where do you put the bastards when you're done? I read a LOT and losing my library would be like losing a part of myself.

My books are always overdue so I end up paying a fair amount to my library, but I'm always happy to pay it as it's still way cheaper than buying the books.

OK so we have the internet these days and kids don't need libraries quite so much for their education, but there's nothing quite like learning from a fat colourful book.

Awful, just awful.

As others have said, this won't be temporary, until the country is 'back on its feet'. Closed libraries will never open again.

I despair of this government. And the previous one too. It's a horrible feeling to not have any trust in any politician.

falseeconomy.org.uk/

IMO, they need to increase the use of libraries. They want people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps? Provide evening classes and basic skills tuition in the libararies then (a lot already do)

Libraries can the hub of the "big society" - in my village when I was growing up, the library was, and still is, the place to find out about the brownie group, the church fete, the new bus timetable.

They don't actually want a big society - they want to be able to blame communities for things going wrong, because they didn't volunteer enough. The only people with time to volunteer are in the richer areas.

If an unemployed person volunteers, they can't commit to any time, because they might get a job. What do they do - turn down the job and claim dole for working in the library?

It makes NO SENSE.

The three hatchet-faced women who run our village library have, I'm sure, put many a child off books for life.

BrandyButter...you're very wrong about the only people with time to volunteer being in richer areas you know...and I suspect that the unemployed will be able to use volunteering as part of their enforced "working for your dole" points...my Mum lives in a very deprived area, many young single Mothers and low income families but I KNOW that if the village library were to be threatened with closure it would not happen...it would be well manned immediately.

In my area on the other hand which is "well heeled" with many families on two incomes...there will probably be a shortage of volunteers because everyone is at work!

Libraries are about more than just borrowing books.

• They are a quiet place to study for those who have nowhere else quiet to go.
• They are useful for jobhunting; researching jobs and using the net
• They mean children from poorer families can still have access to reading materials
• They don't just have books, they also have magazines etc. Very useful for those who need to stay up to date with skills, but can't afford subscriptions.
• They have UCAS information for students who may not have that info available (eg. older students)
• They advertise local events/groups
• Some libraries have old records of newspapers etc.
• They have reading groups/activities for children
• Some are able to teach English to those who do not have it as a first language

As has been pointed out, in some deprived areas there needs to be an incentive to run libraries, as they aren't exactly fun places to be.

Also, it comes back to, if you were being paid to work somewhere, how thrilled would you be to be told "sorry, we will no longer pay you, but you can work here for free!"?

Bearing in mind how many libraries have children in them unaccompanied, if they are staffed by volunteers (higher turnover, need more of them due to not being as reliable) who will be paying for the CRB checks?

Seriously, can some of you not see how messed up this is??

We have higher fees for uni - pricing out poorer families (yes, they don't pay it back till after the earn over a certain amount, but those with less money are unsurprisingly more scared of debts)
Less access to free education (outside of schools)
Reliance on volunteers (unemployed coincidentally being forced to volunteer)

How many of these changes are affecting the stereotypical Tory voter?

When people say "there will be plenty of volunteers"

I wonder why they think those volunteers will be any use?

Just because you fancy doing a bit of helping out in the library doesn't mean you have the skills or abilities to run any kind of decent, useful service. Never mind a responsive or innovative one.

If you've ever tried to manage a large group of volunteers you will know the limits of what you can expect from people who are doing something for free.

You are likely to get some amazing staff who are committed and capable and will put themselves out to get the job done. But they won't be the only ones, by any means. And the competition for that kind of rare volunteer is going to get fierce.

For the reasons fr point out, as well as all the new "opportunities" being created for volunteering.

If I were tasked with running a volunteer library service I would not want any staff being forced to work for dole. They will be fucking useless. That is not how you get motivated staff, and with volunteer staff, motivation is all you've got.

Somebody said above that we should all volunteer to stop this happening.

I think that we should all refuse to volunteer for any work people have previously been paid for. Some kind of register of refusal would be needed. I also liked (sorry, forgotten your name) the suggestion for a register of planned local destruction of services. They are squeezing local councils to make it harder for people to see what they're destroying.

That's a big society I can get on board with - one dedicated to stopping the dismantling of the Welfare state and fighting the increasing insecurity and dropping living standards for most of us.

I'm not volunteering for something which The state should provide. I pay taxes and there are experts to run these things.

Politicians and many others have no empathy. Just because they don't value a service, it doesn't make that service invaluable.

There is a man on here who is brilliant on this stuff (labour Market economics, impact of volunteering on unemployment etc.), could it be Takver?(sorry if not you Takver, and sorry if you're a woman)

there was a thread a while back about forcing people to "volunteer" for dole, and he played an absolute blinder on it.

I would love to get his perspective on this, and what (if anything we might do about it).

My dh works for the library services. Out county is closing 11 libraries & all mobile libraries. My dh will probably lose his job and our very large "village" will lose the only support centre it has.

He says there are 2 kids who come on every day from when school finishes to when the library closes. Where will they go?

The 'community' libraries won't be allowed to use library stock & will get a grant of £300 . That'll buy a lot of books then!

The closure will be devasting for the community, affecting the most vulnerable people, elderly ladies who bring cakes into the staff, people who can't afford home computers & children who clearly don't have a happy home to go to. The nursery school nearby bring the kids down for story time & to teach them about using the library. The next lot won't know WTF a library is as there won't brine for miles, and the nearest one will have a car park that costs £3 an hour!

Don't know if it's already been mentioned but I can forsee that a lot if people (Esp mothers) who currently work part-time or are sahms and have the time to do voluntary work, will no longer be able to do so as the cuts take effect & they need to work more hours to make up the shortfall. Child Benefit cuts in particular...

IWas £300?? Seriously? :(

And do you think any of these libraries will come back when things get better?