to think that some women collude in the infantilization of men and to wonder ^why?^

[seeker]

There are SOOOO many threads along the lines of "Where do you buy your dp's clothes?" "Oh, I never take dp shopping with me""What shall I cook for the freezer for dp to eat while I'm having the baby"

WHY????????????

'My mother used to say never take a man straight from his mother. Let him live and survive as an adult for a few years.
Fortunately there seem to be more empowered mothers around who are encouraging their children to be self-reliant.'

I think this is mainly it. I have been taught by my husband to cook, use a washing machine, iron etc. I just didnt know how to do any of that when we married.

Same as he didnt know how to do anything financial (he still doesnt now and wouldnt have a clue how much money we have in the bank and doesnt really care.

Sorry, I've let annoyance from reading some other threads and listening to rl friends spill out here when it wasn't necessary. I do understand what you all mean, I'm just a little defensive about our dynamic because it is not the norm amongst our friends.

I often get weird looks for doing simple things for DH from female friends as if to say 'what the hell are you making him a sandwich for, can't he do it for himself?'

That's just one example, there are loads. His friends think he has a slave, my friends think I am one. It couldn't be further from the truth but it's too personal to discuss even with close friends so we leave them to the assumptions and enjoy what we have. I suppose I vented here because I have anonimity (sp)

Sorry

It's normal though isn't it cookie. I get pretty defensive on here because of details of mine and DH's relationship (I was kicking off on a feminist marriage thread the other day).

Someone I know is constantly being smug about how 'domesticated' (horrible term) her DH is and how much work he does around the house - I think that's just as patronizing as saying he's useless and can't do any of it. The attitude behind it all is so much more important that how you choose to divide up tasks, I reckon.

Cookie, no need to be sorry. I do understand what you mean.

violethill- you've not read wifework, have you?

sadly some men are perfectly self-suficient when living alone and spout equality but once the ring's on the finger it magics away their ability to use domestic appliances.

"The attitude behind it all is so much more important than how you choose to divide up tasks, I reckon" - couldn't agree more LRD

Thank you Laquitar

God, if I tried to tell DH what to wear he'd have a fit!

I've never totally understood the whole 'buying clothes for your man' thing. As a gift, yeah ok. But because you don't trust them to dress themselves appropriately? That's just plain odd in my book.

cookierookie - I'm in a really similar position. I like doing all the cooking and housework etc etc. And I like to spoil DH a bit, make him his lunches, breakfast in bed etc. Genuinely I find it pleasant and enjoyable. However, it does provoke some negative reactions from people who think that I'm therefore a doormat and DH is master.

But I think, well, I know the truth, I know this is an equal partnership. So the nay-sayers will just have to lump it. Don't let it get you down too much. As long as you are happy, that's the main thing. :)

YANBU.

I can BTW attest that it is possible to take on a 34 year old who has pathetically never learned to cook, and obdurately refuse to do all the cooking yourself. Mr Inferior is now really rather good at cooking.

I think many of us are of the generation where Most o us had parents with the traditional polarised set up: father being provider, mother being the hands on parent and doing all the housework stuff. So this is bound to have affected peoples attitudes.

Hopefully its something which will be less of an issue for future generations, because far fewer people want those polarised roles any more. Men want to be hands on with their children, and be more actively involved in daily things, rather than being just the authority figure who returns home from work in the evening. And women want more of a life outside the home, career etc
Personally I think its a step forward for society. My dh would never assume housework or cooking was my job, neither would I assume his paid employment is more important than mine

Cookie, it is about what works for you. It wouldn't work for me: I don't like running around after folk. However I happily get up and make DP a travel cup of coffee and defrost her car, because it is random acts of kindness that keep things going. My brothers-in-law are deeply envious and have even said to their wives "why don't you ever do that?"
Simples. Their wives are doing every bloody thing else, day in and day out. Kindnesses have gone out of the window.

I wish I agreed with you, Violet, but my heart sinks, frequently, when I read on MN about yet another bloke who does no cooking or housework. And these are men considerably younger than me, frequently. It's as if the past 30 years never happened.

I agree with violethill now the vast majority of girls and boys dont know how to use a washing machine, iron, cook, hoover etc. Most learn when they go uni/join military/move in with a partner.

I dont know mant young people who know how to household stuff and that is evident when people cohabit and marry ime.

Gay, that is such a good point.

snowflake - DH and I were just talking (re. this thread) about how many people we know whose parents sent them off to uni every term with ready meals, took washing home weekly, or similarly absurd things. We both still know men whose parents buy all their clothes and whose mums regularly stock up their freezers with food. In fact, when I lived with ex-p but was away from home looking after my sick gran, my ex's mum used to ring me up and check I'd stocked the fridge for her son before leaving the house.

DH is 23 and I'm 26, btw, so I'm not sure things are changing all that fast.

YANBU - it pisses me off that yet another generation of men are somehow of the opinion that their DP/DW is there to do the "caretaking" tasks for them.

DH has never really lived on his own, although he has lived away from home for a while, travelling etc. So - he can cook, he knows how to work a washing machine. He has owned his own house, although never lived in it, so he has learnt what is what with regards to mortgages etc. But there are things he has never had to do for himself and he seems incapable of dealing with them - so his mother does them for him. To be fair, he does her tax return for her, and deals with anything computer-related, so it's not all one-way traffic; but she still caretakes him whenever she can.

I was in England with DS over the summer for 3 weeks - during that time, he didn't do the washing up once. THere was no filthy pile of washing up though - MIL did it for him ever time. She also washed his clothes so he didn't have to bother himself with the washing machine (which he is perfectly able to use!)

We share cooking, we share washing up - we have now got both on a "take it in turns" basis, for fairness. I do all the cleaning - maybe once a year DH will do something to help, but he just doesn't see the need. I do all the laundry but that is my choice - yes, it might be a control thing but actually it's so I can make up the loads properly, rather than him just stick all his stuff in a single load. He wouldn't dream of sorting any washing out, probably wouldn't know how, but I am not running the risk of clothes ruination to teach him. If anything happened to me, he'd be able to wash his own clothes and I expect he'd work out how to do DS's too so I'm not bothered by that.

We went clothes shopping together for him today - he buys his own, has particular taste, especially in shorts and trousers so I wouldn't presume to get that right (and he needs to try stuff on as sizes vary from shop to shop, style to style).

But - he was only "half-trained" by his mother; she freely admits she gave up when he and his bro hit their teens (she had good reason) and expected that their GFs would carry on the job - great idea except that neither of them got steady GFs! So they are "stuck" as 13yo boys in the housekeeping mentality. Well, DH isn't because I won't let him be, but he would if I let him get away with it.

That's the thing Martha, I also find it genuinely a pleasure which is why I can also see your point Gay. It's something I enjoy and it works for us but obviously wouldn't float everyone's boat. I think that's why I get a little miffed by the looks or comments sometimes - I would never dream of questioning the relationships of any of our friends. They live they way they live because it's what works for them so why do they feel the need to judge us?

Maybe it's because they see only what Violet has summerized. Not that I don't agree with you Violet. I couldn't live like that. It's just that seems to be the immediate assumption of our lives. DH is actually dd's stepdad and he adores her. They have a wonderful relationship far from "just the authority figure who returns home from work in the evening".

Actually reading over what I've written I suppose I can't really blame our friends because on the face of it maybe we do come across very old fashioned and we're both around 30. Like you said though Martha, we know this is an equal partnership and we're happy.

loudrowdyduck - sorry you got wrong end of my post. I think that in future (like now but every year even less women know how to do these things) not many women will khow to cook, iron, use a hoover etc so it wont be expected of them.

I dont think it is expected of them in the younger generation like mine as I dont know any young girls who would know how to cook or clean for a man as they cant even do it for themselves. I was one of them (and still am!) My mum and dad ring up to check on me and to do stuff for me and I have been married 7 years! My dad rings me to make sure I have eaten and lets himself in to put dinners in my fridge that he has home cooked etc.

Agree with the poster who said not to go with a man straight from his mother.

Both men and women would greatly benefit from living on their own first - it did me a world of good.

Also gives you a chance to observe what his living space is like when he is on his own.

Then live with him for a bit before actually making a serious commitment. DON't have children before you have sorted all this out!

Oh, I see! Sorry, I am freezing here and it's affecting my brain.

I'm not sure I agree though - I mean, someone has to do these jobs, don't they? What happens when your parents get older and need you to help them, rather than them helping you?

I think it will be iceland ready meals for 99% of most people I know!

"No woman wants to wash your dirty underpants either!"

I love Gay40's Mum.

"But there are things he has never had to do for himself and he seems incapable of dealing with them - so his mother does them for him."

How sexy.

This thread is not about couple who make active choices about who does what. My dp works very long hours outside the home, and therefore I do do the majority of the domestic work. That is because we discussed how we would manage out lives at this stage, and this way we get the most family time, and I consider that the domestic work I do is part my contribution to our partnership. I would rather he spent time with me or the children when he isn;t at work, and I do what I can to make that happen. But he is PERFECTLY capable of doing everything that needs to be done, and if I am out or ill or having an evening off or have a deadline he willingly does it.

What I am talking about is the women who have to get up when they are ill because their dp is apparently incapable of cooking a meal, ironing a shirt or looking after his children. Or women who also work full time outside the home, but still come home at do the housework and cooking. Or women whose partners spend their time playing Call of Duty when they get home from work. Or....

My mother has done this to my brother. He is nearly 30, and has just left home. He is ridiculously proud of himself for cooking his own dinner, washing his own pants etc. Mum is most put out, and attempts to gain entry to his house to 'help' constantly, then rings me fretting that he'll starve. I just keep patiently repeating to her that he's 27, and will manage just fine. I personally think that she's smothered him and held him back, and I think that he'd agree with me.