to think the teacher could have stopped ds from walking out of school this morning?

[whoops]

I have a few issue with ds and his behaviour and this morning was one of those mornings where he wanted to kick off.

I caught him swearing at another child and then he swore at me. I told him that he wouldn't be going to football this evening (this incident was football related) he then starts punching me as I'm taking him into school.

As we get through the doors he sits himself down and makes lots of noise. Teacher on the door tells him not to sit there and behave like that while other children are going into school. I pick him up and start taking him towards the classroom.

One of his class teachers has come to see what is going on at this point. Ds then starts hitting and kicking me so I put him down and teacher gets hold of him for me. Ds then breaks free and heads out of the School past the teacher on the door who stands there and watches. I complained that she could have stopped him but I was told he was my responsibility as I was in the school dealing with him.

Thankfully he stopped before getting to the main gates but we live on a main road which he has to cross 3 other main roads to get to so if he decided that was what was going to do I dread to think what would happen to him.

AIBU to think the teacher could have helped a little but stopping him from leaving the school?

whoops, I am a special needs teacher, we have a persistent "runner" at our school. We do what we can to keep him safe and, where possible, talk him out of leaving the premises (usually successfully). However, we are not allowed to follow them/chase them and catch them.

Can you imagine what would happen if they ran straight into the path of a car because they were more interested in the idea of being chased by a teacher then watching where they were going?

I'm sorry if you think the school are not being supportive but the teacher was absolutely right on this occasion.

I teach, and generally have the view that if a parent is in the building with a child then the child is still the parent's responsibility. Because for every parent that is grateful for a teacher who steps in and deals with a misbehaving child there will be another one who will confront the teacher with the attitude 'how dare you touch my child!'. It is a fine line.

Also, the teacher on the door would have been there, I imagine, to watch all of the children coming into the school, and deal with queries from parents. She shouldn't have to be taken away from that job to deal with a boy whose mother is still in the building in my opinion. And, if she had, can you really guarantee that he wouldn't have hurt her while in a rage? You say he wouldn't hurt a teacher, but if he gets himself so irate that he storms out of school I imagine he would be in no fit state to control himself if a teacher did try to stop him. And, frankly, teachers are not paid to deal with abuse from children. When I was doing some supply work a couple of years ago I had a Year 6 class (age 10-11) that I had never taught before. One boy, despite reminders, constantly broke classroom rules and refused to do his work. Finally, after warning him that he would miss his playtime if he continued with a certain behaviour (I believe it was throwing himself off his chair and rolling around the floor every 5 minutes) I said that he would definitely miss playtime. At this point, with loud protests of, 'that's not fair, you're so unfair, you're so stupid,' etc, etc, he tried to run from the room. I was quite shocked, had not experienced children trying to do this before and did hold his shoulders to try to stop him. He pushed against me, ranting and raving, and I thought to myself, 'this is not worth it. If I try to restrain him he will probably end up either physically hurting me, or making an allegation of abuse against me' so I let him go. I couldn't go after him because I had 29 other children, who were behaving responsibly to think of. I just don't think it's my job to have to deal with outbursts like that from children of that age.

I think you are very arsh with OP. As I said I have witnessed the same situation with a friend of mine and her son every single morning for a year.sShe was comming to school with him in the morning, all was fine until it was time to get in. He refused to get in and acted like OP's son, shouting at her kicking her and refusing to go in and even tried a few times to run away as well. She had to stay with him sometimes for over 1 hour to manage to convince him to get in and got completely drained out of all energy. She Asked the school for help and was given pretty much the same answer as Whoops has been given on here "we cannot do anything about it" several agencies got involved and helped for a couple of months but when they said "there is nothing wrong with him" and left her to it, the situation started again. Eventiually it got so bad tha she started being judged by the school as an incompetent mother and treated like a leper because of her son's behaviour.Eventually she changed his school. Guess what the first time her son tried to do the same in his new school, his teacher took him by the hand and led him inside, no screaming, no shouting. That was all she had asked all along and all it took, he never did it again. I think you are all underestimating the amount of stress this situation must bring to whoops.Telling her it is her responsability only is wrong because she is far to involved to be able to change the way things are now.

unless your son is at at PRU the teacher is not allowed to physically restrain him.

plus if he won't listen to you and hits and punches you what could his techer have said or done?

read charlie carrol's book about teaching / education in England

Sorry for typos, had just got back in from a long walk and my hands seem to have been too frozen to move correctly!

You were there-he was your responsibility.
I joined a union after I tried to stop a DC leaving the classroom-he said that I was strangling him! This was despite the fact that I put my arm down (it was across the door) as soon as he walked into it. Nothing came of it-but I thought it safer to be in a union.

You sound at the end of your tether and my sympathies go to you. But YABU. Not ever would a teacher be expected to physically restrain a child if the parent is there 'dealing' with it. And even if the parent wasn't there they probably wouldn't/shouldn't intervene unless the child was putting somebody else at risk.

Could you be misdirecting your frustration and anger about ds's' behaviour at the school/teacher?

I would not have touched a child in order to restrain them, it's not worth the serious disciplinary issues that follow if the child claims I grabbed him or hurt him, or whatever.
I could lose my job.
Would have blocked a toddler or YR, but not a KS2 child.
A colleague of mine had a complaint made against her once when a Y5 child was running down the corridor, crashed into her and fell over. He complained that she'd pushed him and the parents were outraged. Took a couple of months to sort out, despite witnesses.
If you hadn't been there, the gate would have been locked and leaving the school wouldn't have been an issue.
The new government are thinking of changing the 'No Touch' rules that are in place for teachers at the moment, wonder what the parent backlash will be like.
You were looking after your 6 year old DD? Wouldn't it have been safer and better to tell er to go to her own classroom and let you deal with DS? You were in school, she was safe.
You need to get more advice on how to deal with his violent outbursts, delegating responsibility to someone else is not an effective strategy. You need to become the expert on managing his behaviour.

hes 9 - you were there and able to deal with it. They have to get on an teach/deal with enquiries/other children and may have been hurt blocking the door.

You are the parent. You were there. You are in charge of your child.

Your child was hitting and kicking you- is that the teachers fault?

YABVVU. As many other posters have said, it is NOT the teacher's job to run after your child, who she has just seen kicking and hitting you, or try to restrain or stop him. Frankly, your excuse that you couldn't run after him because you were wearing heels is unbelievable. Good job he didn't run into a road, then, isn't it. Your heels are obviously far more important.

I teach, and there is no way that I would have intervened. For a start, you were there, and so it is you job to deal with it, not the teacher's. Secondly, if I see a child hitting and kicking, I am not likely to put myself in the way of that - how was the teacher to know that he "only hits you". Thirdly, the teacher had other responsibilities, and your child was not, and should not have been, her priority.

Whilst I do think you need help and support, you come across in your OP, and in subsequent posts, as having the opinion that the school should sort this out for you, and that's not the case. If there are no SNs involved, then it sounds very much like a simple case of a spoiled or naughty child, and that is your responsibility, not the school's.

Loads of misinformation on this thread.

You do not have to be in a PRU to restrain children and no school should have a "no touch" policy.

However restrictive physical intervention should only be used to manage risk not to force compliance. The teacher correctly assessed that there was not a major risk attached to a 9 year old leaving the school building pursued by their parent. They should not be blocking or holding children except to manage risk not as a way of forcing compliance.

YABVU

You don't know the teachers medical history, she could have a good reason for not wanting to get hit or kicked such as a back condition or pregnancy. Also I would never restain a pupil to stop them running off from parents. The first rule I was taught in teacher training wax that if z pupil try's to run, let them and never put yourself between them and a door. Teachers have been left permanently disabled this way. Google Hazel Spence-Young

Seriously, your child kicked off like that and your first thought is to come on an internet forum and blame the teacher, school, and everyone else for not supporting you?

Wow.

YABVU. Look a little closer to home.

Whoops. May I ask if you have a partner? If so, what does he think?

Do you really think your son has special needs?

From reading more of your posts, it sounds like you are crying out for help. Wondering who supports you? We all need it.

I teach - I have a scar where a pupil bit me (very hard) when I was asked by someone senior to me to restrain them - guess what? I will never ever restrain another child ever again!

Parenting lessons to teach you how to deal with your child would be my advice. That poor school! Why should we have to put up with violent abusive children? In no other professional would it be accepted to be treated this way

Whoops - my heart is breaking for you.

There are obviously issues surrounding your lil guy & they need to be sorted out, with the help of outside agencies.

I feel some of the replies on here have been overly harsh. Whoops is obviously at the end of her tether, calling out for help, but none is forthcoming.

I don't see anywhere where she has said she takes no blame for what happened - she is simply a frustrated mother who is calling out for help, not judgement.

Whoops, I hope you & your wee one both get the help you need.

what londonone says - teachers have to do a risk assessment

unless they are told they will not assume that there is a risk involved in a 9yo leaving the building

in our junior school there was an autistic boy who would have been a danger to himself if allowed out on his own- so teachers watched him like a hawk, and would have gone to considerable trouble, perhaps even risk to themselves, to stop him leaving the building- because the risk to him of being let out unsupervised would have been judged as greater

and PinkIce, if a child has problems like that then you're not going to solve those merely through parenting lessons: you need a whole plan of how to manage the child's needs and safety

on the other hand, this does not mean that most children have the same need of supervision or should be managed in the same way

if my 9yo had walked out of the school, a phone call would have been quite sufficient, because it would have been a mere disciplinary matter involving no very great risk- or at least only a risk that would have been his own responsibility

but for the OP, I suspect this is not the case- that's when you need to have a plan

1. YABU re the teacher stopping him - not her / his role and they caan't physically restrain particularly in the presence of the mother

1. you need help a 9 year old who will hit or kick his parent you absolutely need professional help - see your GP get a referral to an ed phsych because there are definite behavioural issues at play there

OP... I can understand why you were worried about the busy road. Your DS may be 9 and able to cross over safely, but when he was in blind rage he may have just rush across blinkered by his temper. Pity also the poor driver who could be happening by at that moment too

Hope you're alright Whoops.

I hardly think this thread was started to slate the teacher, but as someone who needs and wants help.

Surely someone has some constructive advice about how to move forward instead of just blaming the OP?

ds was physically abusing you,and the teacher would have to make instant decision what safest intervention.and perhaps teacher thought an authority figure intervening would further escalate a volatile situation

i also appreciate that you have had a rotten day

teachers have to use appropriate interventions and cannot restrain or forcibly contain

I once got involved in a situation similar to this at school. I stepped in and ended up having my expensive new glasses broke and the child actually spat at me!

Sounds like behavioural issues are the main point here. If he hadn't behaved in this way, this situation wouldn't have happened. When I first read your post, I felt quite annoyed at your take on it implying it's their fault but the little information you've given suggests there's bigger a issue here. Forgive me if I'm wrong, I feel you may need help to discypher what's going on with his behaviour and indeed yours. I had terrible problems with my son for years-see I said ''I had terrible problems with my son'' . What I should have said and what I later realised is that I dealt with my son badly for years. I tried everything I could changing tactic after tactic with his behaviour and I thought I was intelligent enough to find the solution but what changed my life was a book by Rob Parsons. He made me look at things in a completely different way and it worked. The crux was I had to change my behaviour. I may be wrong and to be fair, your son may have other issues as you mentioned a few things so forgive me. Good luck.x