..to insist that DH hands over complete control of his finances to me

[togarama]

DH has always been feckless and irresponsible with money. (He also has some positive qualities but frankly they're not relevant to this post.)

I've been the major earner for most of our relationship and the sole breadwinner for long periods.

DH was out of work for over a year until a couple of months ago. (This was partially his own fault and nearly split us up.) During this time, we built up some debts which are currently on a 0% credit card but obviously still need paying off. We also have to pay our regular bills including nursery fees.

I'm happy to deal with all the bill and debt paying etc.. as long as he puts money in the joint account to contribute towards this. We agreed when he started his new job that he would set up a direct debit to transfer the bulk of his salary to the joint account so that I could access it. Not only has he failed to set up an automatic transfer for the last three months, but every time he makes a manual transfer, he's followed this up by withdrawing or transferring money back to his personal account.

Having totted up the individual withdrawals from the joint account so far this month, it actually ends up as a net withdrawal of £150 and I'm now going to have to pay bills from my personal account again, and pay overdraft charges again, as I've been doing for the past year.

As far as I can gather, he has spent all of this money on beer, junk food, sweets and repaying loans to family members I never knew he had borrowed from. I am furious.

So, now I want his salary paid directly into the joint account, his cash card handed over, and I will give him pocket money. He has the option of agreeing to this or leaving since he is putting me in a far worse financial position than I would be in without him and seems to have no compunction in doing this. I can afford to support one other person and that is our daughter.

I know that this arrangement is letting him off with even less responsbility but I need his salary to stay on top of our finances and can't afford to wait around for DH to develop a sense of financial responsibility.

togarama - you see the yellow and black loop between your knees? Chin on chest, brace and give it a bloody good yank.

Wellwasi: true, but our situation is slightly different in that the bank made DH sign something acknowledging that he had no legal claim on the property before they issued the mortgage to me. I should go back and read the small-print on this perhaps...

Togorama - might be a good idea to check. That form might only be relevant for the bank's purposes (they have those forms because they need to know that, if they ever had to repossess the house and evict the mortgage holder, there aren't any other residents who could claim rights to stay in the property, which would effectively make it impossible to resell the house). I don't know whether a divorce court would give any weight to it when making a settlement order.

The house, as far as I know, will be an asset in the divorce, regardless of what the bank says.

Don't tell your husband this.

In this situation YANBU - if he could behave like a responsible adult with finances then that would be fine, but he clearly cannot.
I got into financial difficulties before I moved in with my DS's father and voluntarily handed over all finances to him until the situation was sorted.

How did it go today? Did he get his wages transferred?

i have a family member who experienced a very very similar situation to you, except it was his wife that was doing it (to my uncle).

they were together 15 years, 2 kids, got into debt, my uncle tried all sorts to make it work (including forgiving her when he found out about 5 years in of the £10k debt she'd racked up - doesn't sound much but it is when you consider they're both minimum wagers with childcare and a mortgage back in the late 1980s). he recognises now that it was his trying to FIX her that actually enabled the whole thing to go on for as long as it did (and eventually, get much much worse in terms of how much debt had accrued due to bank charges, late penalties, interest payments). my uncle is a changed man from ten years ago when he was still involved with this woman, and unfortunately he learnt the ultimate lesson - you cannot change people like this

he is risking the financial security of the person he supposedly loves, and his children - what kind of man spends money on beer, junk food and general crap whilst the mother of his children has to scrape by and pay bank charges just to cover the bills this month?

despicable. get rid of him. i've seen how much these type of people dragged down my uncle, they don't change.

I hope your dh did as he said and has sorted this out

I have "control" of DH's money, including his cash card. However, we have been together since we were 17, and evolved this system when we were very young. I don't know if it could work with two adults who are used to managing their own income, albeit badly in your DH's case. I can see why you would want to though!

Any update?

Togarama, just wanted to send some support. I have a DH who is equally as reckless with money. He knows this though and, without me asking, he has removed his overdraft from his account and his wages are paid into my account. I then transfer some 'pocket money' to his account for him to spend as he pleases, safe in the knowledge he cannot go overdrawn. It's not ideal - I would obviously prefer that DH had enough sense with money for this not to be necessary, but it does work and we are both happy.

WRT the house. Please, please seek legal advice. I believe the form the bank required DH to sign would have been to protect the bank and not you. The bank will have required DH to sign the form to say that he would have no legal claim on the property in the event of you defaulting on repayments and the bank having to go through repossession and NOT in the event of a divorce/ split. AFAIK, the house will still form part of the assets to be split in any divorce.

DH spent most of yesterday evening in the living room on his x-box which is just next to the PC so I didn't update.

He did get his employer to switch the account for his salary payments to the joint account but hasn't yet transferred the direct debits from his personal account. He's put his cash card on top of the TV and I've given him £10. I have had the overdraft facility removed from the joint account.

DH was wrong about his loan repayment and phone bill coming out of his account today - they actually came out yesterday. Luckily, he was also wrong about how much money was left in there and they didn't bounce although he is now overdrawn and will be charged for that. He is meant to be phoning his bank today to discuss the overdraft and switch the direct debits.

DH has done most of what he said he would but I still just feel tired and exasperated.
The continuous succession of small failures and betrayals around money and alcohol have totally eroded the trust between us. He doesn't seem to realise/care that his actions have a practical and emotional effect on me and our DD. That he can't just say "sorry" and everything will be magically alright. That I'm not his mother and don't love him unconditionally.

It would have been a relief in many ways if he had refused to do anything and left.

I feel like it's all too little too late and we've just postponed an inevitable split which would actually be the best thing for both of us and DD.

Hi togarama. Just read your latest post. I think that all you can do at the moment is wait and see how things go. I'm assuming that the money left in the joint account is just enough to cover direct debits and that you will not be leaving any spare money in that account.
In your position I would keep leftover money in my own personal account, would keep just enough in the joint one for bills and would give back to DH the money he has available to spend.

If he dips into the joint account when he has spent his own money, then you know for certain that he can't be trusted and that this will not work out.

Sorry that you are feeling so tired and worn out by it all. Get him to do the transfers (some banks will do this for you, so not as hard as he may think) and give yourself some time. This may work out well and as you both settle into it, you may start to see his good qualities again.

If it doesn't, then you know you have done all you can. I'd get some legal advice now, re the house and division of assets, if it comes to that. Doesn't hurt to be fully informed before you make decisions.

Would it be worth you going to relate? Perhaps with a the right therapist you could jointly explore why he's so irresponsible and he could learn to accept that his behaviour is a big deal.

If he's not prepared to go to therapy to work it through then it's really a deal breaker IMHO as you stand no chance of rebuilding trust.

Your thread prompted me to ask DH if he was happy with the way we jointly handle our finances, my spending etc etc and he is, so am I. We both spend money as and when we choose it's just never an issue we know what is reasonable and unreasonable without having to discuss it. Make me so for you.

Thanks Karma and Cargirl.

We've been to a session of Relate in the past but the counsellor advised that DH should be getting personal counselling for his own issues first or at the same time. After our initial session, she wasn't sure that couples' conselling alone was the best first step for us.

We also just couldn't afford to take up what was recommended at that stage. (On paper my salary is too good to get a discount but in reality it's entirely eaten up with childcare costs, mortgage, bills, commuting costs and debt repayment so we didn't have sufficient disposable cash to pay £45-£90 per week on counselling.) DH did try to pursue some counselling / other support through his GP but I don't know what came of it. I don't feel I can be the one pushing counselling or therapy or it will lose its meaning. DH has to want to change.

You sound exhausted by it all.

I think for your own sanity you need to decide what YOU want. Do you want to stay married to him? Do you think he WANTS to change?

I think I would sit down with him and be completely honest and tell him that you are tired of it all and it cannot continue. That you are trying this way for 3 or 4 months and depending on how it goes and on his willingness to actually do something you will review the situation and decide where you go from here. And I would be brutally honest and tell him that you are not sure you want to remain married to him the way things are currently. I would imagine that any respect you had for him is long gone and I think you can't love someone you don't respect.

I agree with Bud you need to have a frank discussion with your dh about whether he wants to change because the marriage isn't going to be happy if there isn't any trust anymore.