..to insist that DH hands over complete control of his finances to me

[togarama]

DH has always been feckless and irresponsible with money. (He also has some positive qualities but frankly they're not relevant to this post.)

I've been the major earner for most of our relationship and the sole breadwinner for long periods.

DH was out of work for over a year until a couple of months ago. (This was partially his own fault and nearly split us up.) During this time, we built up some debts which are currently on a 0% credit card but obviously still need paying off. We also have to pay our regular bills including nursery fees.

I'm happy to deal with all the bill and debt paying etc.. as long as he puts money in the joint account to contribute towards this. We agreed when he started his new job that he would set up a direct debit to transfer the bulk of his salary to the joint account so that I could access it. Not only has he failed to set up an automatic transfer for the last three months, but every time he makes a manual transfer, he's followed this up by withdrawing or transferring money back to his personal account.

Having totted up the individual withdrawals from the joint account so far this month, it actually ends up as a net withdrawal of £150 and I'm now going to have to pay bills from my personal account again, and pay overdraft charges again, as I've been doing for the past year.

As far as I can gather, he has spent all of this money on beer, junk food, sweets and repaying loans to family members I never knew he had borrowed from. I am furious.

So, now I want his salary paid directly into the joint account, his cash card handed over, and I will give him pocket money. He has the option of agreeing to this or leaving since he is putting me in a far worse financial position than I would be in without him and seems to have no compunction in doing this. I can afford to support one other person and that is our daughter.

I know that this arrangement is letting him off with even less responsbility but I need his salary to stay on top of our finances and can't afford to wait around for DH to develop a sense of financial responsibility.

I can understand where the YABUs come from but am several years out the kind of sympathy that nice empathetic people may feel for DH.

DH also has the option of leaving if he doesn't want to agree to this. I'm not keeping him prisoner here.

If this was one of my friends asking for advice I'd probably recommend a far harsher course of action than I'm taking.

(Lojolecs: There is an alcohol issue. I don't think DH accepts it as a problem yet but it clearly is. But that's a whole other thread...)

I had a partner like this before DH, I was managing all his money, but still I constantly found out about 'new' liabilities, I ended up paying baliffs off, dealing with loan sharks and it got to the point that I didn't believe him when he said he had been mugged.

Eventually I had enough. When I started seeing DH (who earnt about the same as exP as it happens) it put it into perspective what a drain on me it had been, financially and emotionally.

Not sure what my advice is.

ultimatums rarely work...

WhyMeWhyNot and Mooma: your stories make me even more resolute about putting a stop to this now, one way or another. Thanks for sharing.

YANBU - if I've interpreted correctly he's not just not contributing enough, he's withdrawing more than he's putting in to the joint (bills) account to fund his personal spending, meaning that the bills don't get paid unless you top it up by putting yourself in to debt.

For those saying to not have an overdraft I don't think that's the problem. He has a cashcard for the joint account, and is spending the bill money on shite.

I think I'd be changing the passwords on the online/telephone banking and taking the cashcard for the joint account back. He can pay in the amount agreed and whatever is left in his personal account it his. That's not giving him pocket money, that's letting him spend what's left after he's paid his share of the household/food costs.

This kind of latent sexism makes me despair of MN, it really does.

Reverse the genders in the OP and imagine the response it would have got.

If he agrees with it ie he realises that he's being shit with money and that it would be better controlled by you then why not.

I know two families where the men are paid in cash weekly and have to go home and hand it all over to their wives, the women give the men some spending money each week. Otherwise it was all going on beer and crap. Very old-fashioned but if it works for the family then why not.

scotsgirl23 - yes, you've summed it up perfectly.

Question for those who think IABU: what do you think I should do instead? Just go straight for divorce?

Most of us in partnerships pool our talent, if yours is accounting and he isn't then you should agree terms and move forward. You earning more is irrelevant, imo.

I don't think it's sexist.

If a wife was spending money that she should have been contributing to the house so that the mortgage is paid and the kids could eat, then it's hardly abusive to insist that she get pocket money and the bills are paid first!

Where money is withheld for the sake of wielding power over the other partner, that is abusive. Doing it because one person lacks the ability to stop spending money that they don't have is sensible IMO!

I think those who are comparing this suggestion to financial abuse are being rather crass TBH. It's a completely different situation. It is not unreasonable to ask for someone who is earning to contribute to the household rather than spending all of their money on crap and leaving the other person and the children struggling. TBH if anyone is being financially abusive it is the OPs OH.

If the genders were changed and the woman was blowing all their money on gambling or drinking or whatever I would still feel that there was no way of stopping the behaviour.

It's a breakdown in the relationship if one partner has to constantly worry what the other is spending their precious joint monies on. All trust is gone. How do you get trust back whatever sex you are?

WhyMeWhyNot: Yes, the trust issue is a big one. I do worry that even we sort out the immediate financial issues, I'll still never be able to trust him again and our relationship will break down because of that instead. It may all be a pointless waste of effort.

Have just discussed the mechanics of everything with DH again. He's in agreement about setting up the direct debit for most of his salary, happy to do this to my personal account and to have the overdraft facility taken off the joint account entirely, and happy to receive a set cash amount from me each week to cover his personal spending.

However, he insists on leaving several hundred pounds in his personal account each month to cover the costs of an existing loan repayment and his phone bill rather than transferring these direct debits to the joint account as I would prefer so that I can ensure that there's always enough in there to cover them. From past experience I have no doubt that he will spend any money in his account on shit and the loan and phone bill will go unpaid, sparking a fresh round of charges and debts.

He also says he will speak to his banks about all this "not today, maybe Monday...".

I feel like I'm banging my head against the wall. Part of me would be relieved if he left regardless of what I feel for him.

Back to the negotiating table...

It's probably time to call it a day.

I don't think there would be a heave ho if genders were reversed actually - if you read the thread it's about an irresponsible person not pulling their weight in a relationship and the other person doing what they can to stay out of debt. If a woman posted on here that she'd spent all the family money on slot machines, bingo or shoes wouldn't we be calling her a silly cow?

Kudos to you and your plan, it takes a lot to get to the position where you are dealing with your husband like a naughty boy - I know I've been there, and with strict management from my side got through it - I know you aren't taking this decision lightly.

I did read that a couple that takes an hour a month to go through their finances tends to stay together, happy and in control of a balanced relationship.

We have almost gotten to that stage, and it was embarrassing having "finance Friday" but now we meet as equals to discuss outgoings.

Good luck to you.

I dont think its about the sex of the partner frittering money and the sex of the one trying to get 'control', the fact is if togarama doesnt sort this out, no one will. Her DH certainly cant/ wont.

I had this in a past relationship, we both paid into a joint account that was supposed to cover all the bills etc but then he would just withdraw from it whenever his own account ran out of money, resulting in unpaid mortgage, card refused at Asda etc. Its really not fun! The irresponsible partner always promises to change/ stop etc but IMHO rarely does.

I think getting his salary paid to your joint account, removing his access to this and giving him back a bit to spend is the only thing you can do (other than leave). And all his direct debits need to go from that, not just a select few. Or you'll be doing this again in a few months when his loan is in arrears and the phone hasn't been paid.

I'd also make his personal account really basic, so he cant set up new direct debits/ new loans etc if you can

Him leaving sounds best to me. Sounds more like a child than a dh. He will never change if you just take away the responsibility. He may not change if you don't.

YANBU but on the other hand I can't see you keeping respect for this man which will probably kill your sex life and eventually your relationship.

Do what you have to do to keep out of debts in the short term but unless he agrees to sort himself out unfortunately I suspect that things will not survive.

I'm not saying this isn't a problem and one that needs to be worked out but I maintain, if a man posted the above, with references to pocket money and all he would have been bounced out of here so fast the door wouldn't have hit him on the arse.

My tuppence worth is that this is an issue of basic trust - if you can't trust your DH with your money then no amount of cajing is going to fix things.

OP I must say I feel for you. To be dragged down with someone elses debts is horrible and given that you are married you could be liable for his debts even if you haven't signed anything. I'm not a solicitor so I may have gotten that point wrong. I think you should get financial and legal advise.

I grew up in a household where my dad spent all his own cash on himself (beer, gambling, whores - you name it) and we children and my mother had nothing for clothes and often nothing for food. (My mother was seriously ill so could not work). I could tell you many tailes of how much debt he has had and how I have worked hard to sort it all out for him. I got him out of debt a few year ago and he was so happy when the burden was gone. Didn't take more than a year though before he was in debt again and now he is so far gone that when he dies I will refuse his estate as I know there will only be creditors beyond that horizon. IME if the responsibility of having children doesn't sort out their financial ways then nothing ever will. Sorry but its that simple.

Of course his other qualities, as a partner and a father, may make it worth the extra work for you.

Forget the joint account OP.

Move all bills/direct debits etc to your account, then take what you need out of his salary each month. Leave the rest to him to fritter away.

I'd normally jump all over a post like this for being controlling etc, but hes clearly out of control himself. Or willfully taking the piss.

I suspect there are a lot of debt still to reveal itself. Perhaps taken out in your joint names.

I have to say it is the reverse with me and my BH! I am the one who is reckless with money, my BH is the sensible one. Currently he is earning more than I do, but that is because I only work part time.

When we set up home together we agreed that we would open up a joint account, which both our wages went into, all bills get paid out of it, including the mortgage. My BH puts petrol in the car, out of his own money, as he uses it more than me, but I fill it up once a month. We both have our own personal accounts, my BH has no idea how much I owe on my overdraft!! Each month we have an agreed amount taken from our joint account and put into our personal account by direct debit, and we each have the same amount of cash in our hands once a month. When its gone its gone.

The other thing we do is never use credit cards. I have never had one, and BH is paying off his bill, but no longer uses it.

OP I really feel this issue isn't going to be resolved with just taking away his access to his money.

You mentioned that he had previously borrowed money off family. How do you know he is not going to do this again if he has no money?

This man appears to have no regard for how his actions affect you and your daughter.

I would not be able to continue in a relationship where I felt I had to take over my partners responsibilities because he either cannot or does not want to do so himself.

Also, with regard to the posts about gender,I really believe that if a man had posted the same about his wife I would have exactly the same opinion.