by making DP do all the housework?

[Beb]

DP is unemployed, and we have no children. I work full time, plus a volunteering job, so work approx 60hours per week.

Since DP has been unemployed (about 3months), we have been living off my salary alone, which is manageable. He starts a new job after Christmas, so we have decided there is no point in him looking for anything for the next 8weeks, and we will continue to live as we are until then. As I am the one working full time to support us, I have been expecting him to do all the housework, cooking and cleaning - jobs that were previously split 50/50 when we were both working.

DP is not happy with this, and refers to me as 'lazy' quite a lot. He constantly points out 'you haven't picked up the hoover in months' etc, but I think I'm entitled to do nothing around the house, since I now see that as his 'job'.

I am fully prepared to accept that I am being unreasonable, so... am I?

But not all men are like this. Plenty of us have been married to non sexist men many of whom are more into housework and keeping the place tidy than we are. It is very sexist for anyone to suggest all men are uninterested in how the house looks.

It sounds like here that she just needs to leave him to get on with it and continue not to do more and perhaps just have the conversation I do 60 hours work a week and I think your doing 7 hours housework and not reducing it down to 3.5 hours is fair. It's nothing to do with gender. It's about who has most time.

Don't complain. Just let him get on with it.

Those who have someone who doesn't do it and they both work should just leave it undone or hire someone and make him pay the bill for it if he won't do his share but don't give in and do it as you're just enabling the behaviour you want to change and never share jobs. Just divide them out so you don't even think about that job as that's his. I think for a good few years I didn't often touch the washer and that was his preserve and I did our tax returns. I plaited the girls' hair, he took the children to the dentist for 17 years. It's hard to remember someone else's job but if it's your own job and you have a habit of doing it then it's a lot easier, whatever your sex.

I think she should kick him into touch; it is not as if he is the sort of men who does not notice mess and doesn't care one way or another if it is done or not, he DOES notice mess -hence the 'lazy' jibes.

So we've got a man here who fails to realise that his partner works 60 hours a week (at least forty full-time) yet balks at doing a mere SEVEN hours housework. What an idiot.
Sorry, the fact that opening poster needs to question this hints at mental abuse.
Sorry to be dramatic but I do think that: she'll be querying every little thing before long.

Sorry, Xenia, I do not think she should let this go.

There is no point 'hinting' at him -he is not neutral to the place being a tip. He realises that it is messy yet still thinks she should do it.

I think relationships are all about complementing one another and getting the most out of one another by being a good manager. Good managers rarely go head to head or they end up with an impossible relationship to maintain. So, you end up firing someone or them resigning. That can be (kind of) OK in the workplace but is definitely not ideal in a marriage. Of course, you can go down the Marantha route and split up over housework. That would be rather pathetic IMO.

The question I would be asking is what would he be prepared to do that he does not mind doing? Play to his skills. Is he an ace administrator? Does he love cooking? Find something he is OK with and ask him to do more of it. Of course, the housework situation still needs resolving. But the ideal theoretical solution, looking at it in isolation (he does all) is not the ideal situation in practice. I would do some housework, show willing, but also persuade him that he should be doing more and act grateful when he does. Carrots tend to work better than sticks.

I wish my wife loved housework but she doesn't. She is, however, great with our son. So, we have a cleaner and I do most of the cooking and washing up. I know the cleaner is a luxury, but, regardless of our financial situation, I know that if I told my wife to do all the cooking and cleaning (as I supply all the money), I would have a very bad relationship. You have to treat people as people and not look at some ideal socio-economic model within a relationship.

Blimey larry, hope your missus is a tiger in bed!

Yikes, haven't been on here since yesterday afternoon, and it's progressed somewhat!

I went home yesterday evening, and took a rather more 'grateful' approach to DP. I thanked him profusely for my delicious dinner (kiev and chips.... im a lucky woman! ) and told him how lucky I was to come home to dinner ready after a hard days work. It seemed to change him completely - he kept offering me drinks all evening, and was completly doting. So perhaps, whilst I still sort of stand by my initial thoughts - that if I work full time to support us both at some considerable cost to myself, it would be only fair for him to take some of the pressure off me at home - I think its less a case of 'expecting' him to do it, and more a case of being grateful for the bits that he does do.

I think pottonista summed his state of mind up perfectly - he is also used to working very hard, and sees his time off as a sort of 'holiday', and he resents the fact he has to spend some it doing menial housework tasks. I will take the advice given here and gently remind him that if he is wonderful and does some of the stuff during the day, it means we get to spend our time together in the evenings enjoying ourselves. Thanks all.

Grateful? What have you got to be grateful for? You work sixty hours a week and he moans about doing seven hours on chores?
All the best.

larrygryls It's not the actual housework that is the issue here- it is the PRINCIPLE of someone expecting to have everything (that'll be him) from a partner while giving nothing/very little in return.

The actual housework has s** all to do with it.

Marantha,

You may well be right in principle. However, sometimes the only thing you get for being right is being right. Most of us try to achieve objectives in relationships to make them happier. If you read the OP's most recent post, you can see that the night she was nice to him, she got a lot more from him. It is about good people and management skills. If you try to get what you want by hurling abuse at someone, it rarely achieves anything.

And how do you know that he expects "everything" and is prepared to give "little/nothing" in return? You are taking a hell of a leap than what was said in the OP.

larrygrylls What's the point of trying to negotiate with someone who is so ignorant/arrogant/ungrateful that they cannot see that seven or so hours a week housework is a pretty damn good deal in return for everything else being free?

I've known some scroungers in my time but even THEY would think a few hours a week housework in return for not having to put their hand in their pocket for anything was a good thing and not complain.
This guy should try being nice to HER!

Is she to spend the rest of her life with him pointing out the bleedin' obvious that anyone with half a brain can instinctively realise?

Marantha,

Because maybe he has other qualities and is prepared to contribute in other ways to the relationship. Maybe he just hates housework but is fantastically generous in other ways.

Also, a relationship does not need to be "fair" (if such a thing exists) on a day by day basis. If you are together many years, there will probably be periods where each of you is putting much more in relative to the other one. However, they will probably even out over time.

A marriage/partnership is not a house share. There has to be some give and take over time. Otherwise, it just has no chance of surviving. To achieve that, you have to have some "management" skills for want of a better phrase. I get the feeling you think relationships should be managed by ultimata.

OK, Larrygrylls, if he genuinely does not see housework as something to get worked up about, I would agree with you and, yes, it would be a nice case of negotiation and they could kiss and make up. BUT...

He is (mildly) abusive and accuses HER of laziness when she works sixty hours a week and he does nothing (no children, no responsibilities).
Cannot you see that this is wrong of him?

Marantha,

As you can see my perspective is that in an ideal world he would do the housework and not moan about it. It is only 7 hours after all.

On the other hand, if you play to someone's strengths rather than weaknesses, you are more likely to get more from them and have a happy relationship. I am assuming he has strengths as the OP has not told me otherwise and she chose to marry him/be with him in the first place.

I hate the word "abusive" applied to silly things like calling someone lazy for not picking up a hoover. People are not lovely to each other every minute of every day in real world relationships. It sounds like a silly and unfair thing to say but that is all.

Well, larrygrylls Maybe it is only NOW that she is realising what he is all about.
Sometimes you don't realise this until you live with them.

And I do think his behaviour is abusive.
He is not some man who does not care about the place being a tip and can play the 'I didn't realise that being tidy meant so much to you (i.e. his partner)I'll try to change my ways card', he is aware that these things need doing but expects his partner to do the chores in spite of her working sixty hours a week while he does very little and, to top it all, he calls her 'lazy'.
What a thoroughly lovely, kind understanding chap he seems (not).

Oh, come on. Why does every single relationship issue discussed on MN have to come down to a man being "abusive"? I say this as a proud feminist who thinks that men get a rotten deal here sometimes. The OP's partner doesn't sound abusive to me. In fact, we don't know how much housework he's actually been doing. And all he seemed to want was a bit of appreciation and to not be treated as her skivvy. Hardly a bloody crime.

OP, I'm glad things went better last night.

I agree, Bue that men get a rotten deal here sometimes, and, yes, I'm all for appreciation in a relationship, but it's hardly cutting both ways here, is it?

Where is HIS appreciation for her? I am not seeing it-all I see is insults being thrown towards her.

I do not understand the pov that he is her 'skivvy', either. If anyone is the 'skivvy' it is her- working forty hours a week to his seven.
In all honesty, who is getting the rougher end of the deal here? It is not him that is for sure.

He's not abusive but he'll have to lump it in putting up with doing 7 hours a week to her 60 hours.

She should either just smile sweetly and refuse to pick up the hoover until he's back at work or say that once he is up to 60 hours of housework and DIY a week she will resume her share of the household duties.

It's rare for people who aren't parents to post on mumsnet so it's an unusual thread.

OK, revised my view: he is not abusive, he is, however, behaving like a spoilt, selfish tit and I stand by everything else I've posted here.

Unless you live in a 20 bed house with huge garden, animals to look after and wash clothes by hand housework should be 3-4 hours per week for 2 people with no children.
For someone who doesnt work or looking after children this is a piece of cake.
YANBU.

I have just returned to this thread and i really can't believe that the OP. felt that she had to be 'grateful' to her dh for cooking a meal when the man shows little gratitude for the fact that she works 60 hours a week to support him. They have no children, he is fortunate to have some time for himself before he starts work and she has to almost grovel to him in order to make him feel good. The problem is that he can't be bothered to do any housework.
This is not a gender issue for me. When my dh and i got married, i was unemployed. I did everything in the house during the week as dh worked long hours, but tbh as there was only two of us there was hardly anything to do. He is being a selfish git and i cannot believe that his behaviour is being condoned by some posters.

I know, forehead, it's unbelievable, isn't it? I can only think that a lot of people here have failed to realise that he does NOT look after children during the day nor has he other responsibilities (as Xenia* points out, it is unusual to have a childless person posting with an housework issue. I can only think that is what it is) otherwise the world has gone mad.

I mean otherwise what people here are basically saying is that it is OK for her to work full-time while he sits on his backside all day doing very little. .

Remember, according to the opening poster, her and her partner generate about seven hours housework a week between them, hardly a lot to ask of him, is it?