to be so upset about racist/snobbish/cuntish neighbours?

[EricNorthmansMistress]

DH and I were served notice from our last flat due to damage to carpets and walls, which we paid over the odds to have cleaned/painted and which were good as new in the end. This was pretty much because we have a toddler, the LL had gone with us because the market was terrible, then when it picked up she wanted us out in favour of professionals sharers. Fair dos, though stressful and expensive.
We couldn't find anywhere suitable in the time so stayed with friends/family/ILs for TWO months. It was fucking hard, but in that time we found our ideal house, and finally moved in last weekend. I bloody love it, it's huge, next to fields, just lovely. We're so happy and pleased.
Then this morning the agent calls us...the neighbours, on the detatched side (shared drive) have emailed to complain about us. We have been parking on the shared part of the drive. This is true, we didn't realise. We have kept the van on our side and my car in the middle (though never blocking their vehicles in, or anything else). Of course, now we know, we will stop. But this is not all...they have also complained about our DS 'screaming' in the garden (he's not a screamer, it would have been laughing/shrieking with laughter) and other things the agent deemed too unreasonable to mention.

The reason I say racist is because DH and his mate were unloading last friday, they are both arab and DH is black, he also wears clothes from his own country so looks quite different! they were chatting away in arabic, nosy bugger sticks his head out of the door to see what's happening, DH said 'hello' and he ignored him - full on blanked him. I knew at that moment they were racist, but I think they are also snobs due to us having a big van/being renters/not PLU.

Can I add (before people say it) our last neighbours were disappointed that we were leaving as 'we were such easygoing neighbours' and we have done literally nothing, apart from the parking issue, to annoy them since moving in. No loud music, no shouting, no leaving the bins in the wrong place, NOTHING. I'm seriously upset. I actually cried on the phone to the agent as I felt we were being victimised and harassed.

Check out the Race Relations Act MQ - I am not making it up.

It seeks to do away with the apologists for racist behaviour - the "you are only looking for racist behaviour" and "maybe he is a crap person anyway" type stuff.

It may or not be racially motivated.

But I have to admnit.... I have series issues with people who park in my space. Like actual issues.

What if they are racist and that's the reason they blanked you? No-one can force neighbours to speak to each other even if the reason for that is that one side is prejudiced. Probably best to just ignore them. If all they do is blank you, there's nothing you can do.

I know you didn't make it up but I was asking if the same inquiry has defined the term "racist" when adressing racist incidents.
Otherwise you could use the quote to justify that the OP in this thread is being racist.
If the neighbour had acted in this way but was black she would not think his actions were motivated by his racism. As such it is my perception that she is only making this accusation because he is a different race to he husband and as such I perceive this to be a racist incident on the part of the OP.
The standard required by the quote from that inquiry is that "any person" perceives it as a racist incident. I have perceived the op's actions as such and thus this makes it a racist incident.

It's a logical fallacy as it has attempted to define something without even offering any semblance of a definition. It's akin to someone saying to me "what is an insect?"
and me saying "an insect is an animal with an exoskeleton and 6 legs.....or anything which any person perceives to be an insect"

The guy who lives above the flat I let out in London has complained both to me and directly to the property management company every time the tenant in there makes a noise out of place. He never ever raises it with the tenant, despite knowing exactly who he is.

And it's all petty petty stuff, like the tenant had a girl over, she shouted (I didn't ask the context but I could guess!) and the guy upstairs texted me saying he was going to have my tenant evicted and wrote to the property management company and asked for them to send me a letter telling me my tenant needs to go. Now, this was a one off incident, he admitted it was a one off incident, but he still responded to this misdemeanour like it was the end of the world.

Both guys are white so no racism there. Some people just twats, who can't deal with confrontation so decide to go behind peoples backs. There might be no more sinister motive than that.

"It seeks to do away with the apologists for racist behaviour - the "you are only looking for racist behaviour" and "maybe he is a crap person anyway" type stuff."

It may do but it sets a ridiculously low threshold. I'm Irish so my knowledge of the law only extends that far so in no way am I questioning the fact that you are correct. I'm questioning the decision of that inquiry and it's definition.
Such a definition is far too definitive. Lets say I have a black boss and he rightly admonishes me for a poor performance at work. By the logic of that quote, if I perceive it as a racist incident then it is prima facie a racist incident. And even if I don't perceive it as a racist incident but a co-worker with white-power/BNP leanings perceive it that way then once again it is a prima facie racist incident. Even if nobody at work perceives it that way but I go home and tell my wife or someone down the pub about my shit day and they perceive it as such, then by the logic of that quote it is now a "racist incident" even though none of the people directly involved perceived it or intended it to be so.

*sorry not too definitive, too final is what I meant to say.
i.e. once it is perceived as such- then it is

Op you are quite correct they clearly are horrible racists at worst and at the least they are very rude! Hopefully they will move out at some point.

They might not be racist. They might just be twats. They sound like twats tbh as they went straight to estate agents to grass on you rather than talking to you directly like adults.

Apologise for the parking error and move on. You can't change people like this so leave them to it.

Your neighbours' rudeness may or may not be racially motivated it?s hard to say. I'm sure your landlord will not want to lose his/her tenants, after all the tenancy is between you and your landlord. The agent manages the relationship between both parties, but isn?t answerable to your neighbours, especially if their accusations are unfounded.

I personally would politely approach them with a view of clearing the air, or like many have already posted; write a note and pop it through their door. The last thing you want is to fall out with your neighbours when the house is so perfect.

These things have a habit of escalating into bigger arguments, so rise above it, make the first move to reconcile any differences and if it doesn?t work out at least you?ve tried.

I'm sorry you are having a hard time in your new house OP. I am moving to a house with a shared drive myself shortly so will ask where I can't park! I don't think your unreasonable for being upset at the petty behaviour of the neighbour.

However, on a more serious note I do agree with those who say you haven't, yet, any proof of any racism. The teacher who spoke at the Tory conference for instance pointed to not being able to discipline black students (mostly boys) because of a fear of being called a racist (she also spoke of too much political correctness) which in the end means no-one takes their education or their peers education seriously (IMO). I think mayorquimby has captured the key point about the problem of a too broad definition of racism. If everything is "racism" then racism is "nothing" because it can't be taken seriously. Don't get me wrong I think it is very serious. We have to be hard on racism and discrimination of any kind wherever it shows its ugly head in society, however, if we go crying "wolf" all the time no-one is going to care anymore. The value of the word is diminished, if you see what I mean.

I would suggest you go back to the landlord and request formally that the communication with the neighbour is divulged in all detail too you. Like you said, agent had no problem telling you about parts of the detail so there can't be any confidentiality issues (you know who the neighbour is after all).

I do hope it wont turn into a difficult place to live for you!

Thanks everyone
I will write to the agents and request full disclosure of the contents of the email. I will not park on the shared drive again (although I MUST defend myself and point out that I never parked on their drive nor obstructed their vehicles)
Maybe they aren't racist cunts, maybe they are just cunts :)

Eric - no idea if they are or are not racist only because lots of people don't engage easily with new neighbours and you've been parking wrongly. Lots of people don't engage immediately with neighbours for lots of reasons.

However,a bit of suggestion here, my white father never ever presumed racism on behalf of my asian mother. He left it to her to state where she felt something was wrong - and then he helped and supported her.

Conversely, my mother never ever made a presumption of racism against my white father (and believe me, there was lots of racism directed against him as racism isn't the preserve of white people for sure) but if he pointed out something that made him feel he was a victim of racism, she went bonkers on his behalf.

They were both worried about me but took a back seat and intervened where I needed them to.

Remember that the UK has been multicultural for many years and this was the way we tended to be brought up. Not a bad way in my opinion.

You may, of course, just felt something rather horrible from them in terms of race (as opposed to new neighbours, parking wrongly etc) but remember if there was racism it was directed at your dh - I can't see where you mention what he felt? What's his view.

Thanks giveitago - it was DH who remarked that he felt they were racist. His friend who was there (and has lived in the UK for many years, and has UK citizenship) also observed it. I was unsure until today, finding out that they have been making petty complaints against us made me feel victimised and harassed, and when looking for some explanation of why this could be, we reflected on their reaction when DH said hello.

Like I said, they could just be fuckheads with no social skills, but it certainly feels to him like racism. He's usually the first to shrug things off and ignore things, too. He's had twats shout 'taliban' at him and not been particularly fussed about it.

Is it not really nasty and possibly racist yourself to assume that your new neighbours are 'racist/snobbish/cuntish neighbours' just because they are a different colour and didnt say hello. Had they been arab or black themselves and they blanked your husband they would not have been classed as racist (and probably not snobbish or cuntish seeing as that has been spewed out by you on the assumption they are racist).

There are a million and one reasons why they may have blanked you. Being racist is one of them, but it is totally unreasonable of you to assume this.

Makes a mockery of all the truly racially motivated incidents out there.

wait a second..

DH said 'hello' and he ignored him - full on blanked him. I knew at that moment they were racis

it sounds like you're getting a rough deal but i have to take exception to that. i'm deaf in one ear, and i know this sounds far fetched but maybe your neighbour is too, i've been accused of all sorts because people don't realise (like me having to move my desk at work to speak to someone with whom i share my workload with, she used to sit on my right side which was a nightmare).

please don't label your neighbour racist becuase they didn't say Hello, that could be me in any number of occasions :(

but i do think it sounds like they're being horrid about the other things though!

Gotta say that I've made a complaint via the landlord about our new neighbours - because I didn't have the guts to tackle them myself because they're pretty anti social.

But as horrible as it is to have taliban shouted at our loved one that was by other people. If he feels it's racism then Ok - relate to them with that in mind.

I've been shocked by the younger generation and their attitudes towards anything they perceive as racist.

I was laughing just the other day when I crossed a big bridge here in London and we were ALL staring at this white man with his asian young girlfriend. Their attitude to me was like you're looking cos your racist. Erm no - it was because he was beautiful and she looked she had ringworm and we were all looking because they were such a mismatch on the looks front. I think we were all being lookist.

When my little ds born and I took him to the park - nice young white girl showing off her young mixed race baby to a young black man - he was complimenting her on her choice of baby father and pointing out me and my son (me for being big fat and middle aged and my son for being very white) and he saying that at least she wasn't racist like us (wwf - I have more genetic diversity in my little finger than he in his entire family I reckon and he was judging us on how we look - me yellow and my ds with zero skin pigmentation).

That's why alot of us older mixed race people often laugh at the current manisfestation of current 'multiculturalism' in our country. We can spot a mixed heritage person a mile off inspite of colour of skin and we don't generally look for racism - but when it rears it's ugly head we deal with it sharply and without any heavy ideology.

Also got to say that when I married my dh in his home village in Italy I was hated as I wore something that was not part of their culture at all. They hated it. I'm assuming they hated me because of my wedding clothing (way too racy for them) - but I just thought - you'll get to know me and look past my clothing which is not part of your tradition and therefore alien. And slowly they did.

Well frogety, no. I might be making assumptions but I'm really, really not being racist towards my neighbours.

fgr, I accept that. It's not true to say I knew they were racist at that moment, in fact DH thought they were, I resevred judgement. To find out that they are waging some kind of campaign against us reinforced DH's initial impression. He may have been hard of hearing, but he followed it up by being a massive arse either way.

Giveitago, thanks for your perspective!

Difficult situation. I would say that your best option is to put a note through the door apologising for the parking situation.

If they are racist, or just ignorant rude twats, then there is nothing that you can do about it at the moment.

FWIW, my parent's neighbours have never once said hello to me. They have been living there for about 10 years and he still blanks me. He is just weird.

Actually Eric I think you are.

Giddy - you missed my point. DH does not look for racism everywhere, nor does he take everything personally. People saying 'taliban' to him is clearly racist, but he doesn't let it bother him. This did bother him, he felt it was racially motivated. I guess that's down to him. But he isn't the sort of person to see racism everywhere, nor am I.

Well then I think you have a fundamentally incorrect understanding of the concept of racism.

Suppose I ought to explain why.

You called them cuntish, snobbish and racist simply because they were a certain colour when they blanked your husband. That is racist.

If you had simply called them snobbish cunts becuase they were rude to your husband that would not be racist. But you were not calling them snobbish cunts for their rudeness, but for their racism, which you cannot know. But you made a judgement of them based on their colour - IMO that is racist.

I have to say that while having abuse shouted at on the street must be annoying, it is much worse to think that your new neighbours could be racist. Or that is how I would see it.

A passing fuckwit is quickly forgotten, having to look out of the window of your home and see someone you suspect to be racist is a different thing altogether.