I've just had the worst argument I've ever had with my mother - who is being unreasonable?

[Fedupwithmymother]

My mother, who is long-widowed, lives quite close to us. She has no friends at all in the whole world. The other two relatives that she has are an aunt and a cousin. She has no contact with the aunt and some sporadic contact with the cousin, who lives 200 miles away. She has had long term issues with mental health - largely depression but severe enough to require psychiatric help.

I am an only child and my mother feels that she has a right to pass comment about every area of my life. Those comments are usually negative and usually expressed either to my husband, my children or both.

These negative comments range from the mild such as finding some reason to dislike my house, television, car etc to the frankly emotionally harmful.

So for instance she will tell DD1 that I don't love her (DD1) as much as I love DD2. She will genuinely say this in front of them. I have no idea why she says this - it's not remotely true and it's incredibly hurtful to me - but imagine the sort of problems this can cause a child? I've already experienced DD1 screaming at me that I don't love her as much as DD2 and I bloody well know where that little gem has come from.

It all came to a head this weekend. We had a friend come to stay. We had a family outing (minus granny but plus a family friend) which was cut short because Granny insisted that DD1 go around to watch some Formula One race thing. DD1 tried to explain that she didn't want to go, but relented. I heard DD1's end of the phone conversation and it sounded like the other end was pure emotional blackmail. We took DD1 around to her Granny's house.

DD1 knew that she had to be back at our house in time for dinner, as we were being joined by the family friend plus two others. I was trying to cook and entertain but had to drop everything to go and pick DD1 up, and DD1 wasn't ready as Granny had suggested making a birthday card for one of DD1's relatives. The birthday card-making suggestion happened exactly 3 minutes before I was due to collect DD1.

DD1 and her Granny tried to make me wait for them but I just couldn't. I had lots of food on the go. I'd already had to be flexible in terms of taking DD1 around and picking her up when that simply wasn't in the plan for the day. So her Granny agreed to bring DD1 back to our house whilst I went back home to attend to the food.

But then Granny didn't bring DD1 back! I waited until just before serving up and called and asked where DD1 was. I was told that 'She'd already eaten' (at Granny's) that 'She might as well stay with me because you don't seem to like her very much' and to cap it all 'You're only bothered about entertaining your boyfriend' angry] . I have no boyfriend btw. I have a long-standing husband. The boyfriend she was referring to was the family friend. But she said all this to me on the telephone while DD1 was IN THE ROOM LISTENING.

I just went around and collected DD1 myself, shouted at my mother that she was emotionally abusive and ran.

I haven't shouted at my mother for around 30 years. I've long concluded that the way of dealing with her was just not to engage. I am furious with myself for losing my temper but so much more furious with my mother for her behaviour.

Who is being unreasonable? Me? Her? Or both? And what do I do now?

You poor thing. I really fell sorry for you - parents can be a huge burden - especially when you are the only person they have.

At first it sounded as if she was jealous of you and your life. In any case, I wonder if it is worth going round and having a quiet chat. Go for a walk, spend the whole afternoon if you possibly can. Give her some time - as much as it takes. Explain why you lost it, and listen to what she says.

She may have mental health issues of course, but talking to her will help you to understand what to do next.

Could your husband help in any way?

It's difficult to tell from your post if your daughters are being harmed by her. It sounds as if she sincerely believes that she needs to take the side of your elder daughter, and she might have a fixed idea there that is difficult or impossible for you to dislodge.

You don't say how old your girls are, but maybe you need to talk to them too.

You have your hands full. But however awful you are feeling now, I bet your mother is feeling even worse.

Good luck.

Could you still keep in contact with your mother without allowing her to use your children for her own purposes? That is: you visit her but your children don't.

Would it be worth asking your DH for you both to have a no-holds-barred talk with DD1 so she could explain how she feels and then he might understand that the idea of "not damaging the relationship" could well end up damaging his child? Maybe he doesn't understand the concept of the toxic parent.

Depression has very many levels and very many needs (I know, from experience), but it seems to me that your mother is capable of functioning to the extent of manipulating the situation. Yes, she might desparately want company, but that's not the way to achieve that.

By the sounds of it, you do really need to do something about this situation, and pretty quickly, otherwise you'll have just passed down to your DDs the same experience you've endured so far.

www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com

I have problems with my MIL who shows many traits these traits.

My mother is not feeling bad at all. Not a bit of it. She understands the situation completely. She has had a conversation with DH today and told him that I am damaging DD1 by not loving her as much as DD2 and that she thought I had lost my marbles but she would be there for me once I apologised.

I am crying now

I do love DD1 as much as DD2, always have and always will.

YANBU

I fully understand how you feel as I could have your name at the moment! My mother is also an alcoholic (though as far she's concerned she just likes a glass of whiskey or 7!)

Mine has done her usual trick of getting drunk, picking up the phone to various family members and causing mayhem. She remembers none of this afterwards....After a lifetime of this I've had enough and plan to keep my distance for a while until I've calmed down.

I have learnt that nothing I can say or do will ever make any difference. Some people are fixable, some aren't. My mother isn't and yours sounds like she isn't too.

Be strong! It's not your fault. It sounds like you've been a good daughter but now your children are your priority.

just thinking the relevance of you being an only child - very easy for her to manipulate. But also, I think she would have done the "divide and conquer" thing to exert more power and control to esnure her needs were met if you had a sibling. She is doing it now with you and dd1.
I'm not sure that I agree with grannieonabike's thought that your mother is feeling worse than you - possibly she is, I don't know her - but if she is as narcisstic as she sounds then she will be loving the drama and hoping you are feeling very bad indeed. Or do you think she will be reflecting on her behaviour? Has she apologised yet? If so this might prompt an opportunity to discuss boundaries with her.
No wonder you are still shaking a day later, you have probably been trained over the years not to express your feelings and value your own opinions.

Jesus christ, take your family and walk away now. There is no relationship here to damage, except the one between you and your daughter.

You need to take control back and decide how much you allow her into your life.

She is not going to change if she has been like this for as long as you can remember. She is not going to seek help for her mental health issues.

You just need to work out with your DH what is acceptable as a family and work towards that. I would really recommend reading the Toxic Parent book. I haven't joined the Stately Homes thread but used to lurk - very good advice there too.

You know you are NBU - this goes way deeper than that. You need to protect your children from your mother - obviously you don't want them to lose out on a Granny but you don't want a poisonous Granny.

[pats on back]

You poor lady, I want to know what did your DH say to her when she had the nerve to criticise your level of love for your children to him? I truly hope he told her to grow up and get lost.

Fedup, it took me so long to write my last post that I wasn't able to read all the ones that came on while I was writing it.

Some of the people on this thread do seem to have recognised a certain personality type or mental health issue in your mother, and they also seem to understand what sort of relationship it is that you have with her.

You are clearly a loving, caring daughter, just trying to do her best with a difficult parent. Make yourself a cup of tea; try to think clearly about where to go from here.

Sorry can't be more help, but I do admire the way you have tried over the years. Who knows, maybe what happened at the weekend had to happen and will now clear the air between you. If she is such a bully as the others seem to be saying, then sometimes, you do have to stand up to her. Better for her and for you.

She said that?

Jesus. So she doesn't see anything wrong in her behaviour at all, does she?

I really, really, would stop speaking to her, no matter how hard you might find it. If she needs you badly enough, she will contact you, and then you can try to change the relationship you have. If you talk to her again, she will see she has 'won' no matter what you say, and she won't stop treating you or your family like this.
I feel so sorry for you .

Good grief fedup - x posts with you. She is truly toxic and trying to project her awfulness on to you. Please try and withdraw from her. You don't need to create a fuss, just don't visit her, limit phone calls etc. No wonder she has no friends. So for you, you deserve a better mother than this, how cruel. concentrate on your own family now.

Oh, good grief. Classic controlling behaviour, by the sounds of it. Wind someone up deliberately and provocatively, then stand back and calmly pronounce that it's that other person who has a problem and all will be solved when that person apologises.

Since she'll "be there for you once you apologise" - well, don't apologise, since you have no reason to do so. Call her bluff.

This is crazymaking stuff from your mother - you need to get some space away from her for the sake of your sanity.

I think you have been dealing with someone that primarily has a personality disorde. The depression is probably a symptom of that.

Minibmw He reported that he said he refused to entertain any conversation which supposed that we didn't love them both absolutely equally

One ray of joy, at least

He explained that the girls are different people. DD2 actively seeks hugs whereas DD1 is very cool and will occasionally shrug us off when we try to cuddle her

I don't want to apologise

So sorry fedup. It sounds impossible.

But sorry for hijack I just had a look at the website linked earlier and "I found therefore that dealing with my narcissistic mother involved only the most banal of conversation - I could share neither my highs nor my lows. " Ouch

Agree with the divide and conquer description

Surround yourself with some happy supportive giving people for a few days before you do anything

and give your self a treat, a glass of wine, a hair cut or a takeaway. Better still get yourdh on here so he can see that e needs to buy you flowerts and choclates! You need to be loved not condemned you sound like a saint

you have nothing to apologise for. Just say you will not have your dds exposed to her way of thinking and behaviour. She will probably have a big tantrum but then what?She is responsible for her own behaviour.
DD1 may be different from dd2 in terms of how she expresses affection and wishes it demonstrated towards her. But that doesn't mean she doesn't love you and vice versa, as you know. Don't let your mother trick you into developing insecurities or issues about your relationship with dd1, she sounds as though she trying to do it with dd1 in relation to you anyway. Hold your little family close. Don't let her away with any of it. Look at stately homes thread and the websites suggested before, they will be illuminating.

Don't apologise then. You have no reason to.

This may sound really selfish, but I felt so good after I stopped speaking to my mother. I no longer had to guard every comment, wonder when the next argument caused by her was coming from, and dread the phone going in case it was her. It felt so liberating, I didn't realise how bad the relationship was until it stopped. It was like stopping hitting your head off a brick wall.

We now have a much healthier relationship so it has made a difference, I just hope the same will happen for you.

Thank you all again

Cannot tell you how much I appreciate your support

Really have been allowing all this to happen, absolutely have been complicit in all this. I did know she had problems with family relationships

misskaur08 I am sitting here gobsmacked - looked at that website and my mother has all 9 traits - suddenly for the first time in my life it all makes sense!

Sorry don't mean to hijack thread but do have a look at this www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com.

Don't apologise, as you have nothing to apologise for. Go with your maternal instincts (which possibly your mother either never had or has forgotten). Your instinctive need to nurture and protect your children should always outweigh your taught behaviour to pacify your mother.

I hope your DH was indignant at the allegation that you and he didn't love your children equally.

I've a similar-ish relationship with my mother . Tough love works sometimes, time-out (that often last for months :-( ) You prob feel responsible for her being the only child.
Is she on medication for her depression? How old are your DCs? It's hard to cut her from your life as some people suggest. I couldn't/wouldn't. But you do have to take care of yourself and your DCs.

I do feel responsible for her.

She is on anti-depressants and occasionally tranquilisers but I am afraid I tend not to listen to medical stories from my mother

This is because if I tell her anything medical about the family the subject is immediately switched around to her medical issues. For instance, if I tell her that DD1 has got flu, it will take less than five seconds to get on the subject of her hips or her last visit to the surgery.

That's me just mentally shutting doors on her. I've been doing it for years.

The daughters of npd mothers website is very good. I think my mother checks almost every symptom.