I've just had the worst argument I've ever had with my mother - who is being unreasonable?

[Fedupwithmymother]

My mother, who is long-widowed, lives quite close to us. She has no friends at all in the whole world. The other two relatives that she has are an aunt and a cousin. She has no contact with the aunt and some sporadic contact with the cousin, who lives 200 miles away. She has had long term issues with mental health - largely depression but severe enough to require psychiatric help.

I am an only child and my mother feels that she has a right to pass comment about every area of my life. Those comments are usually negative and usually expressed either to my husband, my children or both.

These negative comments range from the mild such as finding some reason to dislike my house, television, car etc to the frankly emotionally harmful.

So for instance she will tell DD1 that I don't love her (DD1) as much as I love DD2. She will genuinely say this in front of them. I have no idea why she says this - it's not remotely true and it's incredibly hurtful to me - but imagine the sort of problems this can cause a child? I've already experienced DD1 screaming at me that I don't love her as much as DD2 and I bloody well know where that little gem has come from.

It all came to a head this weekend. We had a friend come to stay. We had a family outing (minus granny but plus a family friend) which was cut short because Granny insisted that DD1 go around to watch some Formula One race thing. DD1 tried to explain that she didn't want to go, but relented. I heard DD1's end of the phone conversation and it sounded like the other end was pure emotional blackmail. We took DD1 around to her Granny's house.

DD1 knew that she had to be back at our house in time for dinner, as we were being joined by the family friend plus two others. I was trying to cook and entertain but had to drop everything to go and pick DD1 up, and DD1 wasn't ready as Granny had suggested making a birthday card for one of DD1's relatives. The birthday card-making suggestion happened exactly 3 minutes before I was due to collect DD1.

DD1 and her Granny tried to make me wait for them but I just couldn't. I had lots of food on the go. I'd already had to be flexible in terms of taking DD1 around and picking her up when that simply wasn't in the plan for the day. So her Granny agreed to bring DD1 back to our house whilst I went back home to attend to the food.

But then Granny didn't bring DD1 back! I waited until just before serving up and called and asked where DD1 was. I was told that 'She'd already eaten' (at Granny's) that 'She might as well stay with me because you don't seem to like her very much' and to cap it all 'You're only bothered about entertaining your boyfriend' angry] . I have no boyfriend btw. I have a long-standing husband. The boyfriend she was referring to was the family friend. But she said all this to me on the telephone while DD1 was IN THE ROOM LISTENING.

I just went around and collected DD1 myself, shouted at my mother that she was emotionally abusive and ran.

I haven't shouted at my mother for around 30 years. I've long concluded that the way of dealing with her was just not to engage. I am furious with myself for losing my temper but so much more furious with my mother for her behaviour.

Who is being unreasonable? Me? Her? Or both? And what do I do now?

[differentnameforthis]

Bugger, meant to preview that, not post!

It absolutely destroys me every time I hear the accusation so I have no idea what it does to DD1

And the bold is exactly why she does it. She is hurting you through your dd. The best form of attack they have!

She knows exactly how to get you riled up, doesn't she!

And this is exactly why my mother will never meet my daughters. She would love to see me upset & knows that using my daughters will achieve that, where as nothing else has worked so far!

If your children still see her, be prepared for more of the same & worse. She will ignore any of your ground rules.

I've just had a long chat with DD1, who insists she knows she is loved and treasured - equally to DD2. She says she understands that. I'm going repeat that message endlessly

That's great, but your mother will repeat hers too. Sorry, I see only heartache ahead if you continue to see her/let your dds see her! She doesn't care about you (telling your dd you don't love her as much as dd2) and she doesn't care about your dd (talking about a non existent boyfriend on the phone). She only cares for herself.

That is why she has no friends, and no one else sees her, they don't feel obligated by blood.

[theevildead2]

I think you need to not allowe children near her alone ever again.

If you choose to keep any contact make it that as soon as she says anythign out of order you say, "right, time to go home gran".


Don't speak to her for 2 weeks after. She will learn that if she acts a certain way she will be treated a certain way.

[phipps]

I am so sad for you all that you have a mother like this. I want to try and find some compassion for her but it is impossible to do when I read what she is doing to you and your children.

If this person was a friend, what would you do? Would you carry on seeing her?

If not, then just because she is your mother it doesn't give her complete right to do anything at all.

Again, like my mother, she thinks she has rights over my children even though she abandoned me .

You sound like a lovely lovely person and I know you will do what is best for you and your children and fwiw you love for both your children comes through in your posts equally.

[frostyfingers]

My answer to things like this is to write her a letter. I'm hopeless at saying what I mean in difficult situations but very good at muttering and moaning about it in private.

Get your feelings, and your concerns down on paper and send them to her. Leave her to think about it for a while and then contact her by phone and ask if she has considered your letter. If you don't feel brave enough for that then just leave it there and try and carry on with a less involved parental relationship. Perhaps just see her without the children, and see if you can get her involved in other things with other people.

That I know is easier said than done, my mother is lonely and isolated, and complains about it but will not move or take up any offers of activities wherever they come from so I've given up on that!

Good luck.

[daytoday]

Poor you.

Your mother is very ill. The illness makes her emotionally damaging. It's not her 'fault' and I'm sure underneath everything she loves you very much - but the situation must be tackled head on.

This has nothing to do with emotional blackmail and everything to do with some sort of personality disorder/mental illness.

She will NEVER change. There is nothing you can say that will magic her into a different person. However, perhaps her doctors need to know and help her with medication/therapy. But thats not YOUR job, thats the health professionals job.

You should get help to understand how to deal with her illness without feeling guilty and how to stand firm in boundaries.

There is NO WAY I would let my children alone for one minute. You are old enough to realise your mother is ill, but your children aren't. Her behaviour is emotionally damaging them NOW. Have you had frank conversations with your children about her?

I speak from experience of mental illness in the family. You can still love and be there for your mother - as much as you can. But you can't enter the illness with her - or let her illness infect your family. This is what is happening.

You can manage it with a light touch - simply walk away - be firm, tell her what is going to happen from now on - and treat her like a child if need be. Do not fall for the guilt. It may sound cold - but its not. It will allow you more control - so YOU can make the relationship as healthy as you can.

[Fedupwithmymother]

I really like the idea of sending a letter to state our position and set out the ground rules

She keeps calling DD1 her 'soulmate' WTF is that all about?

[MrsTittleMouse]

It sounds to me as though she is trying to steal your DD1 off you. Either to ensure that she "has" someone, or to hurt you, or both. :(

[lucy101]

Daytoday - that is the best advice (amongst lots of good advice on this thread).

[Colourful]

I honestly think you should cut all contact.

My mil is very like your mother. My sil is a mess because of her mother's behaviour. Her daughter (my niece) is heading that way too. She "has" to phone her granny every single day (she is 15) and tell her all about her day, including what she had for lunch, what her friends have been up to etc. My sil enforces this (to keep the peace ffs...). My mil has told my niece all sorts of cruel/bizarre things including "your mummy will never love you as much as I do because she has always preferred your brothers. At least we have each other".

I had a massive row with my sil when I tried to discuss this. Dh and I have cut right back on contact with mil because although my sons are very young she was starting on them already and it made me feel sick to the pit of my stomach.

We revised our wills recently. I had always thought my children would go and live with my sil and her husband if dh and I died but I've changed that now because I cannot bear the thought of my children being at the mercy of my mil.

[AllOverIt]

I have nothing to add in terms of advice. There are so many people on here with more experience of this than me.

I'm amazed that you have coped with this for so long before exploding!

I know that you must feel really torn, but there is a reason why she has no friends left. She has real mental health issues.

I agree with others that you need to severely limit the contact your girls have with her. Only supervised contact. The MINUTE she starts with the 'you love DD2 more' bullshit, whisk the girls away and tell her that she is not to talk like that in front of the girls.

Someone earlier hit the nail on the head. You've got to treat her like a child and fix firm boundaries that she can't cross.

[katedan]

Sorry I have not read all the threads so do not know if this has already been mentioned but could she be suffering from Dementia? My grandad turned really nasty to my mum at the start of his dementia there was no other symptons (no memorey loss etc)but clled her the most awful names and was really unpleasant. I could well be wrong but the things she says sound very strange and very similar to our situation.

[ToniSoprano]

Dear Fedup, I really feel for you. I have a similar mother, although mine wouldn't dream of seeing any kind of therapist and would have had the attitude 'I'm not going to be spoken to like that/looked at like that' if she ever had got inside a therapist's room.

I decided about ten years ago now that my own mental health wouldn't survive my relationship with her, after her telling me I wasn't the daughter she had wanted and why couldn't I be like my brothers etc. My poor brothers are now bullied mercilessly by her and so are their wives and children and, unfortunately they pander to her and are actually stuck with her!

I would be lying if I said I had no regrets about having a non-relationship with her, it makes me very sad indeed because I could have done with a mother who acted like...well, a mother.

But that isn't who she was. I had to accept that and accept that I couldn't bring my children up to the best of my ability while my life was so tarnished by this toxic relationship.

The up side to all this is that I have been able to bring up my lovely daughters, 20 and 16 now, in peace. So I know I did the right thing for them and myself.

On the letter-writing theme- I find it helpful to write a letter I HAVE NO INTENTION OF SENDING. This means you can set out on paper what you would actually want to say to her if you didn't feel you had to edit. Very useful exercise. You can always edit later if you actually want to send one.

I am off to look at the websites about toxic parents etc. might be useful for me too, even at this late stage!

All the best xxx

[Animation]

"She keeps calling DD1 her soulmate.."

Good grief!

Scary lady.

[BiddyPop]

I am glad you are getting sorted, FUWMM, and in a strange way, it is helping me to realise that, although it's not as BAD as yours, I am seeing what is actually wrong with my own mum and her relationship with me.

[Rentatoast]

Fedup - My MIL is like your mother - I feel your pain.

When DD was 3, she told the rest of her family that DD was the only one she could talk to and who understood her.

• FFS!
  

This weekend, MIL wanted to chat via Sykpe. My DH didn't want to, so there was me and DD at this end - and also FIL and his DS at her end. she kept telling DD that she had to fetch Daddy, rather than me, as "Daddy doesn't listen to Mummy" but he will listen to you DD.

• Nice lady!

[Fedupwithmymother]

Thanks for all the kind reassurance. I thought i was going to be flamed for losing my temper. You've all been good to me.

I've started drafting a letter. It's not easy to do because I sound a bit demented and not very balanced. I'll try and redraft it in a less emotive way.