AIBU that I never expected my baby to sleep through the night and can't understand why others do?

[PrincessBoo]

When I had my son I never ever expected him to sleep through the night. I knew that he would wake up for feeding and that my breasts produced the best quality milk at night so he'd more likely be wanting to feed then. We co-slept from birth which made it all so much easier, and apart from teething and illnesses it was all as expected.

Some people on here though, and other sites, and amongst some of the people I met back then at baby groups, it seems like there is this quest to get them to sleep through as early as possible.

My son will be 3 in a couple of months and he still doesn't sleep all the way through the night. He usually wakes up at about 4am and climbs in our bed. I'm so used to being disturbed for ten minutes each night that it isn't even an issue - however I am blessed with being on of those people who can get back to sleep pretty easily after being woken up.

I'm just wondering what other people's expectations were / are?

Sleep is more important to some people than to others. Each time I have gone back to work at 6 months and needed the baby to sleep so I can function. I can't co-sleep as I hear every tiny snuffle and for me co-sleeping means no sleep at all, although I know it works for others.

All three of my DBs have done some sleeping through night from 2-4 months (whilst EBF) but not necessarily consistent. All three slept through night (DS1 took some persuading) at 6 months once weaned & on formula.

Yes there are still nights when one of my kids wakes up, but I function best and am happiest when I have a full nights sleep.

OP: its very nice for you that you don't mind waking up in the night. I'm pretty sure that all (healthy) babies who are ingesting enough food (eg by 8 months?) are capable of sleeping at least from 10pm-6am. If you you want to keep on feeding after that, well its very nice for you.

YABU... I don't think there really are all that many deluded people who fondly imagine that having a baby won't result in broken nights. It's normal to be pleased when that phase comes to an end and get back to something approaching a full night's sleep... to the point of hoping it happens sooner rather than later.

I think it makes a difference as well if you're a parent with a job. If your days are unstructured and unhurried then having your sleep disturbed every night, feeling a bit groggy, catching up with naps during the day and so forth is do-able. If you have to be mentally sharp for an eight-hour working day you're going to make more of an effort to get a child to go to bed and stay there.

I expected DS to sleep through from about 6 months, because that's what most baby books say. Needless to say, I had no experience with babies or knowledge of what life can be like with a wakeful baby. People do not generally talk about their babies waking at night beyond 12 months, because doing so implies that they're doing something wrong. As someone already said, it's shameful. So when you hear about non-sleeping toddlers, you automatically think that they are rare exceptions to the rule. My DS was up 4 times last night. He is 13 months old, and I can only hope that he will sleep a bit better in a few months, as CC would be an absolute last resort in the light of the latest neuroscientific research on the effects of cortisol on the brain (not to mention resulting attachment/trust problems). Also, I doubt CC would work on DS (it fails in around 30% of cases and needs to be repeated after illnesses, travelling, etc.).

I love/need my sleep and feel like a zombie when I have not had enough sleep, but am not working, so can catch up a bit during DS's naps. However, I will admit that I am a bit resentful and sometimes think I can't cope, but you have to deal with what you get. Some babies sleep and others don't - no matter what you do.

Just popping in - I am so glad that people are having the discussion I was genuinely interested in having last night. I'm sorry that because I talked about the way we decided to co-sleep etc in my OP that some felt I was being smug - I wasn't wanting to promote my way of doing things or say that they are what others should be doing, just wanted to provide a little background really.

I was merely interested in what people's expectations are when they are pregnant with their first child after thinking about things I have been reading on the net and discussing with other Mums with newborns and younger babies.

Quietlysuggests I haven't read your thread and I'm not having a pop at anyone, I don't operate like that. Something I read - not on here - just sparked off the thought in my mind, and I posted here rather than in sleep because I didn't want those who are having problems with sleep to think I was being judgey. I thought, correctly, that I myself would be judged and might be misunderstood, but I hardened myself to it when I pressed the 'post' button!

Thanks for the reply Mintchoc :)

Oh - and I'm not having a pop at anyone who needs to moan about lack of sleep either - those who know me in RL will know that I can moan with the best of 'em! When I said all was 'as expected' I didn't mean it was a walk in the park :o

What's ironic is that last night was the worst night's sleep we've had in months - he woke up about 4 times, and I am back at work today after a week's annual leave.

I think another huge consideration to how you feel about all this is whether you have another child, and how well they sleep.....

If I am fortunate enough to get pregnant again Jamie I'll expect the same but hope for one of those ones that sleeps from 3 months :o

ToysRLuv - in relation to my previous point about whether you have other children or not. I did, with some trepidation, "resort" to CC with DS2, whose sleep went haywire between 12 and 16 months.

Coping with that sleep deprivation and a 3 year old as well nearly pushed me over the edge. I can quite see how you would be wary, but for us, it worked incredibly quickly

Then you are choosing to think I am being smug TSC because I don't believe I am better than others, just interested in what people think / thought, and comparing it with my own experiences.

What exactly am I being smug about? My lack of uninterrpted sleep? I don't talk about it much in RL unless I am unbearable tired but like I said, once a night for ten mins (when I usually go for a wee) I am able to handle because I generally sleep like a rock. I'm not showing off about it - I wish I hadn't talked about myself because to some people it is appearing smug, and it wasn't meant that way.

PrincessBoo, what annoys some of us is your glib assertion that as long as you are a proper parent and do cosleeping and breastfeeding, then you will barely notice any wakings etc. THAT'S NOT TRUE! babies that cosleep and breastfeed can stay awake for hours crying too, they really can. It is not a magic bullet, sadly.

To an extent though, as with most things in life, isnt there an element of "you get what you expect?"

If you think it's normal for a baby to sleep through from, say, 6 months, you're more likely to take active steps to encourage that than if you think it's normal for a 3 yr old to still be up half the night.

There are some babies who are either stellar sleepers or hopeless sleepers and there's prob not much to be done about those, but 90% babies are prob in the middle and then parental expectation will have an impact in so far as it informs how parents deal with sleep issues

eg someone mentioned "controlled grumbling" and that prob does have a huge impact on frequency of night time feeds in pretty young babies.

I don't think the OP is being smug.

I know a lot of people who have got the the 3 month mark with thier baby and said to me 'why isn't she/he sleeping through yet?!' you also get asked 'is baby sleeping through' by other people its not uncommon.

Some people are fine without sleep, some people are not. I don't think the op was saying that mothers that have struggled with sleep issues are failures or that she is better becuase she copes with the lack of sleep.

At the risk of sounding antagonistic, having a 3 year old who doesn't sleep through is nothing to be smug about, and on that basis, I dont think you possibly could be.

There's an interesting point in this about the e word and about how you create a multi-million pound industry selling a solution to a problem which the op is saying doesn't exist in the first place.

If babies, on the whole, don't sleep through and parents don't expect them to sleep through (but are grateful if they are blessed with those who do) then she-who-will-not-be-named can't sell you a book telling you how to fix your problem. And that's what Capitalism does - it creates needs which it can then satisfy.

And lol at Canella who knows a mum who breastfeeds a child who is nearly one. Quick someone alert the Daily Mail to this unnatural practice!

I was so stupid, I don't think I'd really registered that they WOULDN'T sleep through so it came as a huge shock to find that my first DS woke up every 2 hours at least!! Long time ago now but I do remember that it was my complete mission to get him to sleep longer and longer, and eventually (bottle fed mind) he did go through the night. I REALLY need my sleep though - felt as if I was going mad - some people seem to cope better with being woken up than others and I think if you're funcitoning fine it's really not a problem.

To be honest, I don't think it is a new need created by Capitalism (though I agree with you re GF and baby gurus in general).

In fact, every single Italian traditional lullaby is about parents asking baby to please, please SLEEP !!!

OP, I didn't think you were smug.

I think that most people expect newborns to wake often in the night: I did. But I would agree that after a couple of months you do start hoping that your baby will sleep more. Additionally, my experience has been that whether your baby sleeps through is one of those questions that people always ask every time they see you, and it can feel like pressure and create expectations. I don't know but I suspect that some baby books foster these expectations.

If your baby sleeps well and sleeps through early, you are lucky and I am !

Unrulysun - yes, that is an interesting point...

Jamie: In your situation I would probably have done CC as well. You have to balance the needs of the baby with the needs of the parents, as a baby cannot survive without them (Winnicott said that "there is no baby", meaning that the mother and the baby are one). Chronic sleep deprivation can trigger depression in the mother/father, which has been shown to (potentially) have a very detrimental effect on the child (their development will slow down, and they will also become "depressed" and withdrawn). So, if I ever was that close to losing my mind and harming myself or my child, I would try CC (as I see it as a lesser "evil").

I am very jealous of parents with sleeping babies, but I try to think that my DS is potentially far more sensitive and intelligent than those simple sleepy types (at least according to Dr. Sears). Oh, come on.. you have to have SOMETHING!

Sorry but I suspect it is far less of a problem now than it used to be, so I wouldn't blame the babies books.

DS and DD are 15 and 13, when they were babies maternity leave was just 3 months, with DD I actually went back to work at 6 weeks but that was from home.

And to add, many of my friends who have babies in the same age as my DS are now either pregnant again, or planning to have more DC. I am considering stopping here. Having only one child is not what I want, and it makes me incredibly sad, but I could not have another nonsleeper on top of the one I have. I would literally end up in a hospital ward. Maybe when DS is 5, and at school? Again, not an ideal age gap, but what can you do.. After having DS I now expect any future children I might have to be horrendous sleepers. For years.

ToysRLuv, one of my friends had the same problem (her DS is not sleeping well at 17mo) but figured as no two babies are the same, she might get a good sleeper next time. Therefore it would make sense to have another while her DS is not sleeping through so that the broken nights overlap and she does not just get one sleeping when the next is born... She is 6 months pg now so will get here to come on here when it's born and let you know!

My first was an appalling sleeper, my second was a fantastic sleeper.

Serendippy and Franca: I guess I'm just one of those glass half empty types.

ToysRLuv I have a dd and ds. DD is 3.6 and slept through from 9 weeks. If she does wake she just comes into our bed and curls up with us, most of the time I only know she is there when I wake up and find her hogging all the bed . DS is 20 months and is a non sleeper. He does now (but it is a very new thing) sleep through some nights.. Before this he still woke every two hours for at least an hour at a time. He was even still feeding every two hours up until he was 14 months old....... He doesn' t sleep at all during the day either...

I do feel your pain if i had had ds first then I dont know if dd would be here. That said no two babies are the same (as my two proved) and my mantra is that the less sleep they need the more intelligent they will be so ds is going to be the next einstein or i want a refund...