AIBU that I never expected my baby to sleep through the night and can't understand why others do?

[PrincessBoo]

When I had my son I never ever expected him to sleep through the night. I knew that he would wake up for feeding and that my breasts produced the best quality milk at night so he'd more likely be wanting to feed then. We co-slept from birth which made it all so much easier, and apart from teething and illnesses it was all as expected.

Some people on here though, and other sites, and amongst some of the people I met back then at baby groups, it seems like there is this quest to get them to sleep through as early as possible.

My son will be 3 in a couple of months and he still doesn't sleep all the way through the night. He usually wakes up at about 4am and climbs in our bed. I'm so used to being disturbed for ten minutes each night that it isn't even an issue - however I am blessed with being on of those people who can get back to sleep pretty easily after being woken up.

I'm just wondering what other people's expectations were / are?

Well Princess, you expected you children NOT to sleep through the night.

I expected DD to sleep through the night. why? cos my mum told me i slept peacefully for 12 hours when i was a baby. my mum-in law told me my husband did the same.

Can you imagine my "horror" that she still doesn't sleep a whole night!! she's 18 months old!

I'd expect my children to be sleeping through the whole night by age three! My DS was sleeping through properly by 18 months and has done ever since. No forcing, no sleep training as such, it's obviously natural for him, why should I expect anything else? I would be fucking pissed off if he was still coming into my bed every night, and I am not blessed with the ability to go back to sleep easily. I would not expect a newborn to sleep through, but by 6 months I would expect a baby to have started sleeping for long periods, I think that's developmentally quite normal.

I am fed up of people asking if DS is sleeping through yet - so many people have asked me it's ridiculous. I just laugh and say of course not he's 9 weeks old!!!

Why do people treat it as some kind of quest? Probably because their idea of hell is a 3 year old who still doesn't sleep through. If this works for you, fine.

My expectation was that my babies would sleep through the night when they were ready. They both did so at 3 months and apart from the odd waking due to a cold or teething, which generally lasts 5-10 minutes, they still do.

Well, I'd kind of hoped that ds would not still be sleeping like a newborn at 13mo. That doesn't strike me as an unreasonable expectation. And much as I wanted it to be, co-sleeping is not the answer to all ills - ds sleeps just as badly in with me half the time as he does in another room, and I don't sleep well when he's in. I like it, as I love cuddling him and it won't last forever, but if you are not a good sleeper yourself, co-sleeping can be troublesome.

I hoped that my children would sleep reasonable stretches at night by about three months (ie three hours at a time, feed, then back to sleep) and then sleep through the night before a year. It didn't work out like that but I think it was a reasonable hope and expectation. My middle child was the worst. I would like to point out to the Smug Mummies that co-sleeping and breastfeeding does NOT automatically mean your child will slumber peacefully at your side, waking you for five minutes, then you all go back to sleep. It can mean your child writhes and wriggles, keeping you awake, during the brief periods they sleep, then they wake, will only latch on if you are sitting up, then stay awake for several hours in the small hours, crying if you try to put them down on the bed right next to you. It is bloody torture.

igetmorelovefromthecat you are so wide of the mark there. Some babies really do just like their sleep. No child cruelty involved here, thanks very much. That has annoyed me even more than people who state it's simply not true that babies sleep through at an early age, and that the mothers are either just completely lying or class sleeping through as 12-5 or something. Grrr.

I can't remember what my expectations were before DD, but I was pleasantly surprised (and yes, very lucky, I don't think it was down to anything I did). Now I am expecting DC2 and desperately trying to lower my expectations as everyone has promised me that having such a 'good' sleeper the first time round means I won't this time :)

I don't think OP is smug, I think it's a reasonable question.

I didn't expect either of mine to sleep through very early because my sister's DS hadn't but if I hadn't had that experience, I'd have probably been a bit worried. I was constantly being asked whether they slept through, mostly by the HV and my MiL. I think there was a bit of an implication that if they weren't sleeping through I can't have been making enough milk I was also frequently told that I was making a rod for my own back by co-sleeping.

Tell you what, though - when they do eventually go all night, at whatever age, it's bloody marvellous!

I expected/hoped that my DTS's would sleep through when I had them 22 years ago. Not at first, but that they would "learn" to self settle/sleep by around 6 months. I recall that by 10-12 weeks they managed 6-7 solid hours unbroken. This was with minimal effort on my part(I mean not hours of shushing/patting)-aside from an established night time routine, feeding them up during the last night feed before bed and sometimes taking them out in the buggy/car if they were unsettled during the day as this seemed to aid their sleep. I expected the unbroken nights to last longer to be honest as the first 6-8 weeks were tough and I could never nap in the day when they did. That said, I did not, and would not, expect to have children with a disrupted sleep pattern much after 1.Although a common challenge of parenting, I would really struggle with it, I think. When they went through the phase of getting out of bed several times a night around 18 months in "playful" mode, I would always return them back promptly. My evenings were important to me having been on the go all day.

I am 31 weeks pregnant with my daughter and will no doubt this time around take a more flexible approach. Especially as this time around I want to BF. That said all things being equal, I will expect her not to be up and down like a jack in the box when a toddler. I am not saying I would always expect 12-14 hrs unbroken sleep, but in my opinion, learning to self settle/sleep well is important and I would probably invest a lot of time and effort into helping her do so, if there were ongoing problems.

Mine have never cried it out, and when I say sleep through, I mean 7-7 (actually they have never really done 7am - they are more like 8am, which used to be cool, but now I have to set the alarm to get my son to preschool on time!)

With my daughter, I used to have to wake her to feed otherwise she just wouldn't. So I'd do it at 10pm before I went to bed and then wake her in the morning when I got up. Sometimes she'd be awake already, just lying there kicking and gurgling to herself but not crying.

I find the whole, 'if only you were a good mother like me and breastfed and co-slept you would even notice being woken up at night' (esp from someone with one child) absolutely infuriating, frankly. You would bloody notice if they were wide awake from 1am to 5am every night, with maybe 20mins sleep during this entire period.

I didn't expect it to happen, but I was bloody desperate for it to happen.

The sleep deprivation with my first child was unreal.

I tried everything I could think of - every sleep training book, every old wives tale, every wacky parenting technique going - to try to get him to seep for longer stretches, simply because I was ill with exhaustion.

Perhaps I should have resigned myself to the fact that he just wasn't ready to sleep a whole night, but at the time, I was desperate (and I do mean desperate. It certainly wasn't a case of DS waking me at 4am for a cosy little breastfeed...more a case of him waking at 10pm, 11pm, 2am, 4am, 6am and screaming for half an hour after feeds and just generally not wanting to go back to sleep. For two years. Torture).

Second child - didn't expect any sleep, was prepared for the worst. She slept 12 hours a night within month of being born and has done ever since (2 yrs old now).

Moral of the story is babies are all different, parents are all different, and it is unwise to base your opinion of what 'normal' is - of what should/shouldnt happen, or what babies/parents should/shouldnt do - solely on your own experiences.

I didn't expect that ds (our first child) slept through the night in the first months of his life.

BUT, at some stage dh and I were desperate for him to sleep for at least a decent number of hrs in a row. Because we were knackered, even if I breastfed, even if the baby was in our room etc. We needed some sleep.
One thing is a baby who wakes up to feed for ten minutes and then goes back to sleep (like dd) another is a baby who wakes up every other hr and screams screams screams, like ds was.

I like, I need to sleep. Lots of people do.

YANBU, my 5 year old now sleeps from 7.30pm until 6am and I consider that through the night - but he didn't do that until he was 4! My 22 month old sleeps rarely that long and will most nights wake around 3am for an hour or 2 ( DS1 was the same).

Some people's definition of "through the night" is a bit looser than mine (ie. 10.00pm - 5 am or wakes once but goes back to sleep) but a lot of others lie about it because it is a source of shame for them or the feeling that they are a failure as a parent

Personally I wish I could sleep for 10 hours straight every night 7 days a week but it doesn't happen and isn't likely too for a while yet

"but a lot of others lie about it because it is a source of shame for them or the feeling that they are a failure as a parent"

No they don't - why can't MNetter get it that some babies sleep through, just because yours don't doesn't mean they are lying.

and sleeping through to me is going to be before you do and not waking you up for a feed. Mine had a last feed at about 10 and wouldn't wake up until 7 from 3 months. DS never slept 7 to 7 until he was 15 which was a couple of weeks ago when he came back from his Dof E and slept from 6 to 8. Does that mean he never slept through

Sorry, going against the masses here I expect (cos I only read op but can imagine responses) but YABU. I did expect my dd to sleep through the night (obviously not immediately) and from 5 weeks old she did and always has. Shes 5 now, goes to bed at 7.30 (although she "reads" for a bit)and gets up at 8.

I also expected ds to sleep through the night and he does. Think from 3 months on he was sleeping from 7.30 - 7.30. Hes 9 months now and I expect him to.

Am pregnant again and expect this one to too.

I think it is absolute madness to have to get up 3-4 times a night to a 4 or 5 year old. Insanity.

My aunts-partners-grandkids are 7 and 5 and they dread babysitting for this reason. Bed at all hours - up and down all night long and rise at 5am.

Parents are absolutely exhausted and quite (understandably!!!) cranky.

No, I keep hearing this on Mumsnet and know everyone is completely against any sort of routine for children but I think the majority of children thrive on it and they need their sleep too!!!

We need, physically, mentally, the whole shebang, to sleep at night. It's what we do, physiologically. It's what we need physiologicaly - if we don't/can't, our resistance goes down, we get ill, we go bonkers. Being tortured by sleep deprivation is horrific, which is why there is international outcry - rightly so - when it's inflicted on prisoners. I loathe being woken up at night. When DD1 suddenly got the hang of sleeping through, when quite little, my life was transformed. I could function. When her sister didn't till somewhat later, I staggered around miserable and knackered for a couple of years.

And a three year old who didn't sleep through would drive me insane, I'm afraid.

I'd kill for midnight - 4. that would be heaven.

You didn't seem smug at all to me Princess, but then I agree with your way of doing things . I also co-slept with baby and had no expectation of uninterrupted night's sleep and i personally feel it was easier for me because of these two factors - low expectation and easy access to baby meant that I actually slept far better and more than I had anticipated. Baby went into his own cot from about 6 months [still in our room] and now is 18 months old in his own cot and room and pretty much sleeps through. Saying this does not I feel make me smug but just that I found a method that worked well for me and my DS. I do agree with Princess that for me not expecting baby to sleep uninterrupted throughout the night meant I was in reality pleasantly surprised.

I have not tried any sleep training, I just go with the flow - if my DD wakens I know it is usually for a good reason...teething pains, leaked nappy or hunger. I know that the act of nursing is not just nourishing; it is also nurturing and sometimes my DD will want to be close to me during the night.

However, I don't think that its unreasonable to expect a baby to sleep through if they are physically able and ready to do so. I, like many others have said, constantly hope that my DD will sleep all night. I hope that my DD will be physically and emotionally ready to sleep all night sooner rather than later...

I certainly hope that my DD is able to settle into her own cosy bed and sleep all night (or at least self settle when she wakens) by the time she is 3 years old!

Barbie, my ds is in a routine, simply by virtue of his sister's daily routine. His naps are about the same time each day, his bedtime is the same each day, blah blah blah. It makes fuck all difference to how he sleeps. This is a baby who cannot sleep even held in my arms - please don't assume that the parents of bad sleepers are somehow stupid - unless you have about 1000 children, your own family does not count as a statistically significant sample.

dd slept like a dream until 6 mo, when it all went to pot for 6 mo. She's fantastic now, and has been for a long time, but her brother is a very different creature.

In the early days, I think it is pretty unreasonable to expect a baby to sleep through the night.

However, there's a line here, surely?

If you respond to every minor whimper at 11/12 months, you are unlikely to promote great sleeping habits.

I have no issue with being there at night for my son whenever he needs me, but if (as has happened occasionally), he cries out and I go to him and, having checked he is okay and not wet/dirty or hungry, he decides to launch into a 'dawdle dawdle book a book a bau?" monologue (complete with pointed finger emphasis on the bau), I don't think it is even vaguely unreasonable to let him now that 4am is not the time for chatting with mum and dad.

I was ultra responsive to my ds until he got to about 10 months, when I could suddenly starkly perceive the difference between a distressed cry and a self-settling whimper. I wouldn't let him cry in distress but when he's lying there shouting "ah! ah! mummum ah!", we don't rush in and - lo and behold - he is asleep five minutes later.

I think there are people (at least online) who have extreme expections in both directions e.g. respond to every last loud breath or leave them scream for hours. Common sense, to me, dictates a middle ground for most (all normal disclaimers applying with reference to special needs, strange medical conditions etc ).

know not now

Oh come on. Who does go into to every minor whimper? ds screams like he's being attacked by wolves. Don't most people sit listening to whimpers with crossed fingers and held breath, muttering "go to sleeeeep, don't wake uuup"?

The expectation of a good night's sleep comes from sleeping through the night for most of your life.

When a baby arrives, it's not unreasonable to want to get back to sleeping through the night as soon as possible, as that's what you are used to.