Terrible morning - DS in tears both very upset

[onceamai]

A bit of background but I feel really at the end of my tether and very upset.

DS is 15, very bright, at one of the most academic (and most expensive) schools in the country. Very good grades, popular and sporty - everthing going for him (apart from his awful mother) Every time I speak to him I am snapped at in an insubordinate way "what" "in a minute" "ffs" "no I didn't".

Every time I ask him to do something it's in a minutes. Of particular note is his bedroom which is a complete tip. I had a week off at 1/2 term and wanted to tidy it. He had two weeks - complete refusal to help always later or not now. In fact seemed to spend entire two weeks in bedroom on computer, game station, etc.

Is asked constantly to sort out piles of clothes on chair and make sure what needs washing is in linen basket. Always an issue finding essential stuff - asked time after time to get games stuff ready night before so if something can't be found or needs washing there's time to deal with it. Never happens.

At five to eight this morning - we have to leave at 8, "where's my PE top". Is it in the cupboard I say, no. When did you last have it - if you unpacked rucksack at beginning of half term and put in wash 3 weeks ago, shoudl be in cupboard. Response is rude and insubordinate - more the tone than the words. PE top found, screwed up in heap bottom of pile on chair.

I completely lost it, yelled at him about rudeness, speaking to me like s**t, treating me like a servant, complete lack of responsbility. Never doing what is asked.

Response is "i'm still growing and I get tired and you don't understand". I completely lost it again - I'm nearly 50, work full time, bend over backwards, can't do any more and dreadfully "I don't have any of this with your sister".

Then I found that yet again, he had thrown my clothes on the bedroom floor and not picked them up (he uses my hairdryer and mirror in the morning) and I lost it again.

In the car he told me I was a bully (I had said earlier he could get the bus but relented so he wouldn't be late) and he couldn't help it - it was his personality and the only problem was that we were both the same (we are). He said he felt that I said he was useless and had ruined my life - don't think I did. I told him to buck up his ideas and that if he couldn't he could go to the local comp. because I was sick of bending over backwards and making sure he got the best of everything when he was so ungrateful.

Awful, awful morning. I feel absolutely dreadful and a completely useless parent. He got out of the car really upset. I am on the verge of talking to his tutor.

This was all over a PE shirt but I feel at the end of my tether because I simply cannot do any more and feel there is zero appreciation.

Sorry this is very long and rambling but really really upset and worried. DH works abroad Mon-Fri so I do keep a lot of balls in the air and it is hard sometimes. DH though does tend not to confront issues - that's his family's way and why his two sisters are completely non conformist, ie, have never worked, grubby, lazy, scroungers. May be a bit of I'm not having you turning out like either of those two lazy so and so's in here in case it's in his genes.

I don't think you are a bad parent.

I do think you are absolutely right to try to stop him from speaking to you rudely.

And let him either sort his own laundry out or go without clean clothes.

(But perhaps be allowed to keep his room more or less as he likes it.)

However, I do not think you should let him feel that you expect him to become a certain type of person because he has all the advantages you never had. Your childhood is not something he can fix and he will only feel guilty and therefore more angry. All right, you probably don't mean it, but 15yos take things so literally and are terribly, terribly serious. So I think any effort you make to cover up your resentment will be effort well spent.

Try to treat it as a discipline question instead, no you do not speak to me like that. And give him responsibility, be prepared to let him make a mess, let him get detention for dirty kit. Let him go in in dirty and crumpled clothes, try not to engage with him (sorry dear, but it's your job to look after your PE kit, afraid I can't help you). I always make a point of being terribly busy in the mornings to make it clear that if I do help anyone to look for anything it is favour I'm doing them.

I meant to say, I also went to private school (not posh though!) and I def didn't appreciate it at the time. Neither did I appreciate that we never went without at the time.

I do now!! Particularly now that I know how expensive private school is and can't afford to send my dd.

You probably need to keep your feelings out of discussions with him as curlymama has said, he won't get it.

However, he can't swear at you, be rude or cheeky in an overt way (you won't be able to stop him rolling his eyes) and he needs to pull his weight about the house.

My mother used to come down on me like a tonne of bricks for this sort of stuff but not my sister (the baby). She used to really tug on my mother's heartstrings and make excuses for herself about being tired/us all not understanding etc. It was pandered to far too much. She has a lot of problems with authority as an adult and her attitude is "I've got a lot on my plate, how can I be expected to [insert here normal adult expectation e.g. go to work/be on time for appointments/use choose and book]"

I think a "well, it's not fair but life was never meant to be" brisk approach to some of the more manipulative expressions of emotions (in a fight) is important.

You are being reactive - not proactive.

Let me explain:

When ds 1 was 15 he was also very difficult.

I sat down with him, on a good day, and we wrote a contract.

In it I detailed my expectations of his attitude and behaviour. I also reminded him of the things that I do to provide for him, what I was prepared to do, and what I expected him to do, both for himself and also to contribute to the family.

We went through it together, and both signed it. He had a copy and I had a copy.

The outcome was that he was responsible for his room, his laundry, his school things and his sports kit. We also agreed that he would speak to me politely..

I provided his phone and top ups, computer access, clothes, food, transport when public transport not suitable/convenient, by prior arrangement.

Failure to stick to his side of the agreement resulted in withdrawal of any of the above except the food .

It wasn't plain sailing by any means, and we went through some difficult times, but he is 22 now and is lovely.

HTH.

You are NOT a bad mum . He is a typical boy for his age and they are infuriating ! Stand your ground and do not give an inch. It will come good in the end. DO NOT let him be disrespectful to you.
Mine is now 25 and due to get married soon. His home is immaculate ! He is also kind , thoughtful with a good job.
He was laughing last week at his sister getting a row in the way that you have just described . He is highly entertained that he was once like that.
I do sympathise though, I vividly remember days that I just wanted to stay at work rather than go home to more teenage crap.
One thing I would add though is that DH would always back me up even if he was only available at weekends. No way would DH not tackle this head on. I really think yours should support you too. By not doing so he is almost condoning your sons behaviour. You both need to make the boundaries clear and stick to them.
It will pass ....now I pass DS's empty pristine room and feel a huge pang of loss and nostalgia. Believe it or not some days I even miss the mess !

Give yourself a break.

Poor you. Take a deep breath. Have a coffee.

First off, stop and think about your needs. You are snapping because you are stretched too thin. Do you need extra help keeping those balls in the air? Can you delegate more? Switch to a 4 day week? Take more personal time? Take up yoga/running/whatever to give you some sense of personal space and time, and to regain being a grown up and the capability of being objective.

Then, tell yourself he is a teenager and this is all natural - both his behaviour, and your snapping. Been there, done that.

Then, tell yourself it's good that he is actually talking to you. And how lucky you both are to have each other and for him to be so talented.

Then, get a good book about teenagers and read it. Then realise it's all about letting them make their own mistakes, and having their own private space and time. Get him a hairdryer and mirror - he should be doing this in his room not yours.

And flame me, but girls and boys are different. My DD tidies her room for pleasure. Accept it, and remember you must never compare your kids with each other. Parenting cardinal rule no 1.

The parenting coach at my 15-year old DS's school told us we need to let them have a messy room as it's part of being an individual and privacy. I realised that my DSs room had become a complete and constant bone of contention - both of us and the nanny would go in there and immediately start telling him off because it was messy. I came home and told him what the coach had said and his response was amazing 'finally, someone understands me'. We discussed it and agreed terms - he could keep it as messy as he liked provided there was no mould growing and his desk area was pristine so he could work, the nanny would no longer clean it unless he tidied up first and she would not wash any clothes that were not in the laundry basket. After a fortnight it was a tip, he was really stressed by it and he had no clean clothes. I helped him sort it all out and then asked him if he wanted to change the contract and again he amazed me, by saying 'no, I've learnt now what I need to do and I am happy I can make it how I need it to be'. Six months later its fine - admittedly a tip, but when I go in I just think 'phew, I don't need to tell him off about this' and we are all much happier.

Might work for you.

my dd is very very messy
her room is awful
I shut the door

Thanks workingn it out as I go. And yes agree with others too that I need to get him a hairdryer and a mirror this weekend. Will have to clear the top of the chest of drawers first though .

A word of support - you're just human

And dont beat yourself up over threatening changing shcools - its exactly the stupid thing I've said to all 3 of my kids 'If you cant get up and catch the train then you can go to the local comp and I can give up work'.

I know it makes no sense. They know it makes no sense but I've said it many times. When I do say it, they know I've very upset!

On the taking away the console thing, do it. Doesnt matter that he's bigger than you. I continued to remove my son's XBox after late night sessions right up til the end of the 6th form. And I have to admit that I did remove it once this summer when he was home from uni.... being woken up at 4am to hear shouts of 'kill the *' whilst he was on line did not go down well....

Your son does sound to me to be very much on the money with his comments - he's still growing, he's really tired, he cant help it..... but if he'll just agree to TRY and help it, you'll have common ground...

OP you both sound liek you are frustrated with each other. i agree with others. i think you should get out of th house with him and tell him how it is going to be from now on. ie; him being resposible for his own clothes and room and he will not be using your room and mirror if he is going to be so disrespectful and throw your clotehs on teh floor.

WRT him being 5'10" and you being smaller. his physical size and strength should not be a barrier to you disciplining him. do not let him ever think that he has control over any situation because of it.

Is he under a lot of pressure from school?
He sounds v stressed (but that does not excuse his treatment of you in any way).

"Will have to clear the top of the chest of drawers first though hmm."

Of course you mean that he will have to!

i think you should find him a hobby and take the game console and tv out of his room.

dont do his washing unless its in the wash basket

It sounds a bit like you and he are kind of stuck halfway about him taking responsibility? You are trying to get him to do stuff, but there are no consequences for him not doing it, because you pick up the slack.

eg, ask him once on Thursday night, have you got your gym kit for tomorrow? 'Yeah, yeah, in a minute', 'OK, well you'll need it tomorrow moning and we're leaving the house at 8'.

Then, Friday morning, express no interest in the state/location of gym kit. Car leaves at 8am, he brings kit or not, his responsibility if he is stinky/half dressed.

He is treating you like a servant, but you are letting him...

Have balls of steel. He will learn.

(agree with WorkingItOutAsIGo about the room too, not worth the battle. His mess, his choice)

Mutable - he hits the bottom of the top half without lifting a finger. The school admittedly is a hot house but he hits the grades making very little effort. He's very much an Alpha male. His approach to work is minimalist.

Yes is 15 so some bolshyness to be expected !

However I think you are expecting gratefulness for the wrong things and threatening the wrong sanctions

The expensive school is for your needs not his @ 15 , he will be grateful for this when he's 30!

He shouted at you and you still took him to school to stop he being late??????

You wont take the consoles away because he's taller than you ???? Walk in unplug and take away - do it when he's out if you are afraid of physical confrontation. - give it back after an agreed time of good behaviour ? a sticker chart used with some humour ?

Make him responsible for the daily things in his life that need doing and also make him face the consequences of not doing this ? and do not waver.

My 12 years old who has ASD ? makes sure his kit is ready ? makes his own and other 2 dc's pack lunches 2 days a week ? my 8 year old does 2 and I do 1 with my 6 yr old

My 12 year old also cooks 1 eve meal a week

A 1st class education is fantastic but being able to prioritise and have self discipline are priceless and much more likely in the long term to stop him turning into his Aunts

As a footnote as regards the state of the room, I also let it go , his mess, his choice etc. Amazingly when he started having female visitors his interest in being houseproud about his room soared !

Am I mad? This is just normal teenage stuff isn't it?

I find your use of the word "insubordinate" quite interesting, and your threat to send him to the local comp is a bit daft; that sort of threat would have meant absolutely nothing to me at 15.

IMO, I would just stop. Just STOP. Shut the door on his bedroom; don't look in there; don't get involved. It's his room, if he wants to live in a shitpit that's his lookout.

No PE kit? What a shame dear, looks like a detention coming your way...

Want to use my hairdryer and mirror? Oh, sorry no can do I'm afraid - unless you can respect my stuff then there's no way you're using it.

Actually just re-read your OP and I think maybe BISCUIT.

Still - my advice is good for anyone else out there.

I actually had quite a bit of trouble with my own mum- or she with me, depending on how you see it

The trouble was that she would be extremely helpful/do a lot of work for me, partly because she was genuinely kind and helpful, but partly because she was a perfectionist and couldn't bear to see me do things less than perfectly. This was also a big factor in my own laziness and unhelpfulness: I knew I would only get things wrong. So I let her get on with it and did very little. The trouble was that in the meantime her resentment kept growing until she suddenly lost patience and let me know how completely unhelpful I was.

To me, it was unsettling: one day I would be made to feel that there wasn't a problem, the next day I was unhelpful. I needed to know what was what. In fact, my mother hasn't changed in all these years. She still talks about how she wants us to help her more- and then takes the work out of our hands when we try. She does it for the best of motives- but inconsistency is seriously unsettling.

To be kind to my own dcs, I have tried to make a habit of not doing more for them, or giving them more, than I am actually happy with- that way I try to keep resentment down.

I don't think he needs any more hobbies. He is very sporty and that might be where the pressure lies and DH can have unreasonable expectations here and I'm not certain the lad will quite make pro. The kit can be a bigger issue than for some families I think because there is so much of it. Sometimes training and matches 5 times p.w. Hadn't focused until now that the pressures could be around this and maintaining position in the "alpha group" because he's always so keen and interested. Think the penny might be dropping.

Cory - thank you - tough but resonant.

He should be doing more chores. It seems like you are doing everything for him and then using it as a stick to beat him with. It doesn't sound as if he likes you "hassling" him. So stop. Make his allowance dependent on chores. Simple clearcut list of chores.
Don't pack his bag unless he asks for your help in good time. Then you can help him.

If he misses PE, or gets a detention for not doing his work that is between him and school, not you and him.

Don't take him to school especially when you are already seething, that's a form of passive aggressive behaviour. I think it is easy to develop a very martyrish relationship with children instead of sticking up for your rights. Sticking up for your rights doesn't mean feeling guilty because you are not doing boring things for him. Do positive fun things with him. Get him to cook you supper for example.

And it doesn't matter if his room is untidy. Leave it untidy. He can hoover it himself if he wants, when his friends come round.
Or issue an ultimatum about black bin bags.

He is 15. In the old days people got a job when they were 15.

Anyway I think this is why people send their sons to boarding schools, alas...