To think that religion shouldn't come into contraception advice?

[Sugarmuppet]

or am I being terribly nieve?

Having grown up in the country in the middle of no where, religion has never been a part of my life. Everyone just go on with everyone regardless of what religion you were. The question just never came up.

I recently moved into a very 'catholic' area of Glagow, my husband and his family are all practicing catholics. What an eye opener!

I joined his Doctors practice. Had nothing but great care during my pregnancy. Didn't even know it was a 'catholic' practice. Went today to get some contraception advice, I had eclampsia and the consultants at hospital warned me against going back on the pill. Anyway, my Doctor today says 'we are a Catholic practice. It is against my religion to deal with contraception requests, please go to your local family planning clinic'

Is that the most ridiculous thing you have ever heard?

GMC Good Medical Practice: Decisions about access to medical care

Katry1010 - How do you know what peoples real beliefs are if achnowledging them would result in them losing their job?

I think it would be very difficult to take the word of a practicing Catholic that they WOULD prescribe contraceptives, perform abortions etc to the same level as a non-religious doctor.

The only practical solution then is to ban all Catholics (and a few other religions at that)

For those of you who think doctors should do everything asked by a patient, including abortion:

If euthanasia became legal, would you expect all doctors to do that?

weegiemum's DH is a damn good GP, if it must be known. luckily i can count on one hand the number of times we've needed to see him despite being a family of five.

and had no problems referring DH to consultant for vasectomy.

but they do have the right to refuse. i'm okay with that.

i've always gone to FPC or sexual health clinic for contraception, anyhow.

personally, i'd take my girls and son there, too, as teens or steer them in that direction, since most run teen sexual health clinics.

TCNY, the straw man is the idea that religious people should be banned from the medical profession.

As for people's beliefs, in a democracry we don't need to know what people truly believe, we simply need to know that they behave appropriately in their jobs and investigate them if complaints are made about their behaviour.

awwww expat ((unmumsnetty hugs))

I didn't want to invoke you, but I do know how much you love him!

cathiolicatheist - So it's those two extra years that make the difference and not CME and practical experience? Well, we can save an awful lot of effort for an awful lot of people then.

... and I didn't realise my dh had done your dh's vasectomy referral! (discreet).

As dh has had the snip himself, he is pretty evangelical about it (almost as evangelical as he is a Christian!)

What 2 extra years? There are no 2 extra years at Uni, not in this country!

ANYTHING could walk in the door, they need to know what to do with it all.

yeah they refer it to a specialist of some kind because generally they dont have a clue.

Seems to me that the one remaining acceptable prejudice is against people with faith...

In some quarters, anyway.

MillyR - that is the practical result of the proposal though. By banning anyone who won't prescribe contraception you are banning all traditional catholics, many observant muslims and Hindus.

The same as if you were to make prayer a part of a job you would be excluding athiests.

I think that people are adults and could understand that patients would have the right to complain if they felt that their medical needs weren't being met. As I said, I don't let my Atheism inform my work. I actually think that some clients would assume I AM religious because of the support for their spiritual needs I give them.

As someone else said, Christian and Muslim Social Workers are expected to work cross-culturally or with people whose sexuality they may have issues with. I worked with extremely devout Christian Social Workers who managed to be professional with gay people/Muslim people/people who wanted support around abortion. They did a great job, as good or better than any I would have.

MsHighWater, being a declared Atheist isn't any fun sometimes, believe me.

Look its not me saying the calibre of GP's is shoddy..the medical profession itself wants to change the system so good quality graduates become GP's rather than the ones who are not cut out for hospitals. Now from what I understand from medics I know, you are being encouraged to state a preference to become a GP much earlier so it can be almost a specialism rather than an easier option.

"yeah they refer it to a specialist of some kind because generally they dont have a clue."

no it's not you saying they're shoddy at all

TCNY, well that is what it comes down to, yes. We either find practical solutions (as most practices do, by being mixed) or we make a choice between making it difficult for people (mainly women and girls) to access reproductive health care or some people with certain ethics (not all of whom are religious) have to either choose a different area of medicine or do something they don't agree with.

Generally where minority rights are in conflict, the order of importance is determined as disability, race, gender, sexual orientation and religion. It is usually the last two that conflict in law most often. Hopefully most doctors will continue to work in mixed practices so that this issue won't come under legal challenge.

Euthanasia is clearly different because, like abortion, it is going to be far less common than people needing contraception.

MillyR - If your position is that those with ethical views that may conflict with patient care should only work where there is easy access to alternative care, then I don't have a huge problem with that.

I didn't think we were coming from miles apart, to be honest! I think it is the finer points of how we work these things out in society that are interesting to talk about.

I just think it's important to remember that a secular world view does not, and should not exclude religion.

Yes, and it works the other way around. A woman may come in and want advice on natural forms of contraception, and a secular doctor would have to act in an ethical manner and make sure she got appropriate advice.

the snip was the right choice for us :o. he had no problems with that. wife with a record of increasingly severe AND and PND, one child diagnosed with learning disabilities, man in his mid-30s, father of 3.

termination is not for us, so best to avoid pregnancy altogether, and i'd already tried Mirena with very negative side effects.

i don't have a problem with GP's referring to FPC, though.

sometimes it's best, as it's a lot of what FPC's do, so if the GP is not trained in it, it's the place to go.

Glad the GP was straight with his stance. As a Christian there are types of contraception I would not use, so if I was a GP I would find it hard to recomend them.

If you want a full choice the FPC is the best place to go, my Mum used to be a Dr at one so I am biased!

altinkum, i wasn't referring to a hypothetical situation

i DID have to sneak to my local GP for contraception at the age of 16, and if she had refused me, I simply wouldn't have had access to it in a form that could be reliable (at college, local shop owned by one of mum's friends - not the sort of place i'd go in to buy condoms from)

and this was in north wales, the idea that i could just hop along to the local FPC is laughable - how on earth is a 16 year old who WANTS to be reponsible for her reproductive choices in life supposed to cover a bus trip and time spent at a FPC?

women in their 30s, who can drive, get access to another town, who are confident of how to proceed - these aren't the people i'm most worried about when it comes to these issues

i'm worried about people like me when i was 16, who wanted to do the proper thing and be responsible - but who, in an alternate reality, the Dr that day perhaps decided that she didn't agree with handing me a prescription for contraception...

the people who agree with this Dr's choices on her have NO IDEA of the repurcussions of what they're doing. i think you forget the very real human beings suffering as a result of your belief in an imaginary friend

I just think it's important to remember that a secular world view does not, and should not exclude religion.

Absolutely. Be as religious as you like.
But if it affects your professional life, thats your problem. In this particular case, if the GP felt morally unable to provide contraceptive advice, it would have been better for the patients if she could have been in a practice with someone who could, rather than - even kindly - washing her hands of it and sending the OP off to the FPC.