To think that religion shouldn't come into contraception advice?

[Sugarmuppet]

or am I being terribly nieve?

Having grown up in the country in the middle of no where, religion has never been a part of my life. Everyone just go on with everyone regardless of what religion you were. The question just never came up.

I recently moved into a very 'catholic' area of Glagow, my husband and his family are all practicing catholics. What an eye opener!

I joined his Doctors practice. Had nothing but great care during my pregnancy. Didn't even know it was a 'catholic' practice. Went today to get some contraception advice, I had eclampsia and the consultants at hospital warned me against going back on the pill. Anyway, my Doctor today says 'we are a Catholic practice. It is against my religion to deal with contraception requests, please go to your local family planning clinic'

Is that the most ridiculous thing you have ever heard?

If my DD, in a few years, wanted to get to the FPC, she would have to get on the one bus an hour into our town, and then on a train to another town, which has a contraception clinic once per week during school hours. If she wanted to get there from school, she would have to get three buses there and it would take her an hour and a half.

How is that easier than seeing her GP? The point of GPs is that they are your local doctor. The point of FPC is that they offer another resource to create more opportunities to engage people who may be vulnerable because it is so vital thay people get every opportunity to get adequate contraception. They are not there because other health care providers don't want to deal with people's everyday sexual health needs.

And that's where we part company, altinkum. It is not their right to refuse treatment. What about my mental health? I had sex in my teens and am pregnant in my thirties. That is what I wanted. My doctor meets my needs not the other way around. I am not stopping the doctor going to Church, praying or whatever. Why would she stop me doing something which is not against my beliefs? I'm not a Catholic, what business is it of hers if I want to be in control of my fertility. FFS

What on earth is a sexual/woman nature? It sounds like something from the dark ages.

FCPs do not deal with all health issues related to being a woman, and some of the health issues they do deal with are for men only - like men who have sex with men clinics.

Why should I go elsewhere? It is the National Health Service. MillyR and frgr have both said why it is not always possible to go elsewhere. And, again, why should I? I don't push my lack of beliefs on my clients. I support their need for spiritual input. I have accessed Mosque and Church and Temple support for people I work with. With sensitivity and care. Even though I think religion is total bollocks and that it is actually harmful to the wider population. That doesn't matter because I am employed to meet the needs of my clients. They have a need for religious and/or spiritual care and I facilitate that.

You can't MAKE people act against their principles. You can tell them that if they are going to follow certain priniciples that you aren't going to let them do certain things, but not go against their own morals.

The doctor seems to have acted perfectly ethically.

You shouldnt have to go elsewhere. Its a secular country we pay this woman's wages with our tax so she provides the services we need. I would take the issue further, people's religion should not get in the way of their professionalism, its totally NOT ON!

Catholicatheist - As I said above - you can't make someone act against their own morality. So the options are:-

a) Ban all people of faith from medical practice.

b) Tell Doctors to refer if they are asked to do something that conlficts with their personal ethics.

c) Some kind of Jedi mind trick.

b) Seems like the best options to me.

coalition - actually a registrar was sacked for refusing to conduct civil partnership ceremonies. A boss who discriminated against women would be sacked (or held to account in the courts if the business owner).

The law says people may not discriminate on grounds of gender, race, disability, sexuality or age. If that principle comes into conflict with the way you want to do your job, you either have to adapt your behaviour or choose a different job.

a) sounds the best to me. Something along the lines of "Religion has no place in your profession".

Thecoalitionneedsyou Why there are other professions were you are asked to 'act against your own morality' so I dont see why medicine should be any different. A woman I know is a social worker and she said that she did not want to assess a gay couple for adoption as it was against her christain values and she was told in no uncertain terms that she was in the wrong profession and if that is how she felt she needed to look for another job as they are committed to equality and providing a service. I cant see how this is any different. We need to stop pandering to this kind of nonsense if you ask me!

i find it interesting that wrt this issue the UK is considered secular but when discussing religious diversity in the UK it is considered most definitely christian.

All people of faith don't refuse to prescribe contraception.

problem with b) is how the hell do patients know in advance that their doctor is a Jehovah's Witness who will refuse to have anything to do with blood transfusion, for e.g.? And where do you draw the line? I'm a vegetarian, if I retrained as a doctor, would I be able to harangue patients about the evils of eating meat, or to refuse to see someone who has just been scoffing a burger?

Actually I bet there are no JW doctors who are allowed to have nothing to do with blood transfusions. Suspect it's only people who want to oppress women who are pandered to.

"I'm a vegetarian, if I retrained as a doctor, would I be able to harangue patients about the evils of eating meat, or to refuse to see someone who has just been scoffing a burger?"

thsi GP didn't harangue anyone. and also, i doubt you would be expected to prescribe a burger for anyone so it wouldn't be an issue. the GP didn't refuse to see her because she has used teh pill in the past, she told her that she wouldn't advise her on contraception and directed her to where she could get advice. your vegetarian scenario does not equate with this.

I don't know if anyone realises that there is absolutely no requirement for any GP to provide contraceptive services and everyine has the right to use any GP surgery at all (which provides it - should be mentioned on the practice leaflet/website) for contraception - you just make an appointment and the practice bills the government for it.

My dh is a GP who does not refer for abortion or prescribe the MAP on religious grounds. But he is a bloody good GP (I only have to walk down the street in the area he works to hear the plaudits of his patients who come up and talk to me (not keen on being called "Mrs Doctor", but hey!) he's amazingly good at his job!

I know this only comes up rarely for him, but when it does he has an arrangement with another doctor to pass on patients (he's single handed in a rural area) and this is known locally. I object to the people here who suggest that he shouldn't be a doctor because of this one little thing. What he does is legal - protected within the Abortion Act. And I know female GPs who also don't refer for abortion.

However, I do think that conrtaception is such a basic part of healthcare that it should be available. I know one GP who doesn't prescribe contraception to unmarried women () because he doesn't believe in pre-marital sex. That is just wrong, and he has got into trouble about it!

Booyhoo, the UK is culturally Christian. It is not majority Christian in a religious sense. The NHS is secular.

TCNY, we certainly can't stop doctors who are religious being doctors, but they have to abide by certain standards. This can be done though practical solutions rather than an all or nothing perspective. So the usual solution is to work in a mixed practice and pass the patient on to a colleague so they are seen in a timely fashion to remove the risk of them not seeking advice.

Other situations are not as easily resolved, such as the dentist who would not treat the children of a woman who did not wear a hijab. He was found to have committed serious professional misconduct by the GDP.

edam - It doesn't matter what the Doctors beliefs are as long as they refer if their is a conflict.

boo - that's the difference between culture and history on one hand, and the laws that govern how society operates today on the other.

One of the very important principles of liberty and parliamentary democracy from the very early days has been that we are NOT a theocracy. Although for historical reasons this was originally defined by opposition to the Catholic Church (given the Pope was encouraging invasion - essentially we are celebrating deliverance from Catholic take over on the 5th).

booyhoo if you cant see the point that edam was making which was clearly comparable you must have missed the point!

Coalition - that's one argument/compromise. I disagree.

Allowing anti-abortion GPs to say 'it's OK, I refer any patients seeking abortion' or pharmacists to opt out of MAP actually allows bullies to obstruct access to healthcare. Sadly there are GPs who harangue pregnant women and seek to prevent them accessing information and advice about abortion. Of course they should act in accordance with professional ethics and behave in a neutral manner, with no detriment to the patient. In practice that is not always the case.