To think that religion shouldn't come into contraception advice?

[Sugarmuppet]

or am I being terribly nieve?

Having grown up in the country in the middle of no where, religion has never been a part of my life. Everyone just go on with everyone regardless of what religion you were. The question just never came up.

I recently moved into a very 'catholic' area of Glagow, my husband and his family are all practicing catholics. What an eye opener!

I joined his Doctors practice. Had nothing but great care during my pregnancy. Didn't even know it was a 'catholic' practice. Went today to get some contraception advice, I had eclampsia and the consultants at hospital warned me against going back on the pill. Anyway, my Doctor today says 'we are a Catholic practice. It is against my religion to deal with contraception requests, please go to your local family planning clinic'

Is that the most ridiculous thing you have ever heard?

thanks millyr i was referring to catholicatheists post "Its a secular country" .

I can just imagine someone queuing up in McDs and when they get to the server and ask for a burger being told that the server is vegetarian and to see the next server along. I see an unemployment line in their future.

Oh and Katey, doctors do have a right to refuse treatment. What they prescribe, whether or not they refer etc, is all a professional decision.

Someone could march in to see my Dh tomorrow and demand referral to XYZ consultant - my dh does not have to do this. He is himself a specialist -a specialist generalist if you like, and he makes that decision. Sometimes he doesn't refer, if the referral isn't appropriate.

No-one has a right to demand any treatment, or any medication, from the NHS. To ask, yes, but not to demand.

I know this isn't the point of the thread, but I wanted to correct that mistake!

cathloicaethiest can you explain to me how it is comparable?

Weegiemum, I was just using that as shorthand. Of course if I want antibiotics for a cold they can refuse!

Restricing sertain professions to atheists seems deeply illiberal to me. Where peoples beliefs can be accomodated they should be.

Where they can't then people need to abide by the general opinion of society or, yes, get another job.

If we restrict Medicine to atheists one of two things will happen

a)some Doctors will continue to practice according to a religous morality while pretending they are athiests. This will be to the detriment of patients.

b) We suddenly need a fuck load more Doctors as all the ones we have recruited from far more religous countries resign and the supply reduces as the number of students, which is currently skewed towards people from more traditional communities, is reduced.

Katey do you think I'm best off not applying for a job at MacD's then?

weegiemum, i totally accept that your husband can refuse to refer but i expect he makes his decisions based on medical grounds rather than moral or treligious, which is teh case in the OP.

A GP is not a specialist! They did five years NOT seven at University!

WM, there are limitations to that. A GP could refuse to treat someone in an individual case, but if they were found to be refusing to treat people on the grounds that they were gay/sexually active women/overweight/from Poland or whatever they would be in a lot of trouble.

So the grounds on which someone refuses to treat you does matter in terms of the GP being allowed to be employed by the NHS.

I think the OP has been very reasonable: but not thrown her toys out of the pram.

I once went to a Catholic doctor who informed me firmly that I shouldn't worry about combining the Pill with antibiotics because it was "only a theoretical risk". He was a really nice guy otherwise, but I didn't feel I could trust him where contraception was concerned.

Weegie, that's entirely different. You are confusing 'doctor refuses entirely suitable treatment for their own personal reasons' and 'doctor decides treatment is not suitable for medical reasons'.

My doctor may perfectly well decide I don't need an MRI scan. That is entirely within their field of competence. They should not decide that I cannot have contraception because they have some religious faith that they reckon outweighs my medical needs.

I'm Irish, 41, and was raised catholic but would now consider myself agnostic.

I have never personally been refused contraception from any GP but I do know of some GP's who will not prescribe the OCP on moral grounds. While I don't agree with them, I don't believe that they should be made to prescribe something that goes against their personal beliefs, particularly as we do have Family Planning Clinics and plenty of GPs who will deal with contraception. No-one is forced to attend a particular GP and there is so much more to being a GP than just contraception that it would be wrong to exclude someone because of their beliefs.

I was refused contraceptive gel for my diaphragm once from a catholic pharmacist around 18 years ago. I was as it didn't occur to me that it would ever happen, especially in Dublin city centre. The lady behind the counter whispered that she could give me K-Y instead but I declined!

Booyhoo It is comparable because the same principles apply. Also it IS a secular country are you refuting this?

Those last two years must make ALL the difference. The length of time they have been practicing none at all obviously.

TCNY, it isn't neccesary for all doctors to be athiests. It is simply that some religious and non-religious ethical beliefs are incompatible with working for the NHS. As a society we have to decide which beliefs are incompatible.

catholicatheist - It's not a secular country. The head of state is the head of the established church. The established church and other faith groups have rights and privileges that they would not have in a secular society.

I would like a secular society. A secular society would not restrict access to professions on the grounds of religion.

Coalition, what part of not every religious person refuses to prescribe contraception do you not understand? I don't think only Athiests should be doctors, I am not a complete idiot. I have religious medical professionals in the family and they would prescribe the pill (or whatever). What about a teacher refusing to teach non-Muslim girls who don't wear headscarves. You might think that person shouldn't be teaching in a State school.

Edam, I'm really sorry but I think that career path is not your friend.

From the General Medical Council Good Practice Pages

1. If carrying out a particular procedure or giving advice about it conflicts with your religious or moral beliefs, and this conflict might affect the treatment or advice you provide, you must explain this to the patient and tell them they have the right to see another doctor. You must be satisfied that the patient has sufficient information to enable them to exercise that right. If it is not practical for a patient to arrange to see another doctor, you must ensure that arrangements are made for another suitably qualified colleague to take over your role.

TCNY, you do seem to be wrestling with a straw man.

well i have already explained why it is not comparable. and i am not refuting that the uk is a secular country, i was stating that i find it interesting how people change their opinion of whether it is or isn't depending on the topic of discussion.

MillyR - How do you know what peoples real beliefs are? If you can find a compromise that allows them to express them without losing their jobs that allows them to be honest and for patients to receive appropriate care.

MillyR - What is the straw man?

Thecoalitionneedsyou : Well it does actually because a lot of GP's know full well they would never have made consultants which is why they opt for becoming a GP. A specialist is far better qualified. My experience of GP's is that if it is not a boil or a virus they send you to a specialist. They are gatekeepers to services and it is their job to make what they consider to be appropriate referrals or dole out antibiotics, wart remover or other medicine people need.

GPs are specialists.

All doctors do 5 at uni. Then they do the foundation stage. Then they train as a specialist.

Dh did 3 years of hospital training post housejobs, then 18 months in General practice as a trainee, and sat loads of exams, not just his MRCGP membership exams (including the DRCOG - obs and gynae, and the DFFP - family planning!). THere is not another doctor in the NHS who can cover the range of specialisms as a GP. They are what I said - specialist generalists. ANYTHING could walk in the door, they need to know what to do with it all.

No, its not the same. I was responding to Katey saying "GPs do not have the right to refuse treatment".

If you tried to stop religious people being doctors, then you would have a big recruitment issue. Ask any university CHristian Union where their members come from - its the medical school!