To think that dd's PE kit was at school YET she did PE in her underwear..?

[Shhhh]

Surley its not unreasonable to expect that if a PE kit is provided and at school that come the PE lesson it should be worn..? AND that a group of 5/6 yr old boys and girls are not running about in their knickers..?

Posie,you really are a fuckwit of the highest order.Muslim culture ensures the dignity of its followers.Male and female.

And what Western people like to prostitute their children? Nothing worse than someone demeaning someone else from a pious loathsome position, 'we' like to cover our children. Anyone that insists on that level of 'dignity', euphemism for be embarrassed about your body, on an infant is a complete fuckwit. The only reason for being modest is to do with sex. I am sick and tired of the self righteous hate filled shit that comes from certain quarters. I would challenge any parent who wants to burden their child with 'modesty' to the point that they feel uncomfortable in underwear.

Seriously dangerous when ill educated people attempt to pin adult perspectives upon children, dangerous and ignorant.

What sort of 'creator' would want children to be embarrassed of their bodies?

I'm a primary teacher, and mostly with this, am shocked at the TAs responce.
Generally in ks1 children do "leap into life" style pe, where there is lots of marching/jumping/hopping etc. Wearing a skirt or shorts with this is fine, but i've known lots of bare-feeted children in long trousers stepping on the hem and falling over. I wouldn't however, ask 30 children to change out of their uniform and into shorts and t-shirt. IMO having PE kit is a bit silly, as it takes so long to get everyone in and out of it without loosing something.

I can understand the teacher giving children the choice, but think parents should know so it at the start of term so that if they wish, they can discuss it with their child.

Posie - i actually I agree with you that it is very sad that a 5 year old should be so body conscious, my 5 year old most certainly isn't, but it is fuck all do to with muslims.

"embarrassment" and "feeling comfortable" are 2 different things. A child does not necessarily need to feel embarrasment from being in just pants and vest, they may feel anxious or uncomforable as this is not something they will have been asked to do before. It may feel "wrong" to them because they have always been dressed in public before and see pants and vest as underclothes. As you say yourself you tell your dd to not show off her knickers and younger dc's will pick up on this.

Some girls like a feeling of personal space from a young age. Bottom line, children get upset about all sorts of things, both reasonable and unreasonably getting upset about doing PE in pants and vest is reasonable.

If its putting a child outside of their comfort zone and the child tells their parent then I would say the parent had done a good job of bringing up her child to trust her parent and to be a person who can stand up and say if something feels wrong.

When my ds was 2 and poo'd in his nappy he would stand behind the sofa, a door, the curtain, whatever. He didn't like to poo where he could be seen and didn't like to have other people around when I then changed him, does this mean that I have somehow psycologically damaged him? No, its really common! He is an individual independant child and he likes a degree of privacy. If a 2 yr old likes a degree of privacy then why should a 5 yr old not be entitled to a degree of privacy if they have themselves recognised a lack of it?

Oh and posie, " Nothing worse than someone demeaning someone else from a pious loathsome position," you did that on page 1

Mountains molehills.

DD probably only got upset after Daddy went off on one about it...

"As you say yourself you tell your dd to not show off her knickers and younger dc's will pick up on this." kick

No I didn't. I said my DD is requested not to sit with her legs akimbo, in her nightie, not in clothes with her pants on. She has older brothers.

And the fact you say 'girls' feel uncomfortable means, without question, that they are socialised to feel like this.

Chippingin, doesn't read that way round from the ops second post explaining the sequence of events,

"dd came home last night clearly not happy about it, much questioning needed to find out why she was crying etc."

Turns out PE was done "naked" which it turns out means she did it in her knickers...

Dh was livid as was I. I remember this as a kid and a 15 yr old and hated it. I thought these such lessons ended years ago..."

Posie,
Actually I said "child" if we are being pedantic.

Ok so I "presumed" that in you "legs akimbo" comment your dd would have been wearing pants, but whether she was or not you are still sending her a message, if its appropriate for you to make such statements to your dd then what of those of us who are making the same statement and having it over heard by younger children who will also learn from the statement. Children mimic adults to learn how to function in society within society's rules. If you or I were to go to the gym in pants and vest the we would get a face from other members of the public and most probably the management. So at some point it becomes inappropriate.

If a school has required a parent to pay £30.00 for a uniform then I would be annoyed that it had not been used.

Posie, why do you want children to be running around in their pants and vests at school? And why do you seem to think that any child who feels unhappy about it has been "incorrectly socialised"? You are very vehement on the subject did something happen to make you feel this way?

"Some girls like a feeling of personal space from a young age."

see.

And why else would a child feel concious if not socialised to feel that way? I don't see the tribal girls and boys of the rainforest covering up. I don't want children running around in vest and pants, but at five I would hope that they wouldn't be particularly bothered either.

I just typed my reply and the lap top lost it!

I could pull my last post apart and feed it to piecemeal but you could just re-read it. I said girls like personal space I said "child" relevant to uncomfortable.

From a previous post that I recalled seeing you make last month regarding your dd

She's waiting to dress in her party dress, has dressing up play shoes on, purple eye make up (like a stripe across her eyes) and just her pants.....

The fact that you commented "just her pants" says something about your surprise at how she was clad......and yet you are nasty to the op who was also surprised...

Double standards.......

My double standards v you being quite thick and unable to see the difference...

hmm that'll be the latter then.

One regards a child at school being worried about being in underwear the other talks about a child without hang ups being dressed, at four, in party shoes, make up and only pants. What's your issue with that? A four year old was wearing make up and shoes without clothes...she wasn't embarrassed or uncomfortable.

Perhaps if you read the rest of the thread the OP talks about los (eww little ones) being vulnerable in underwear due to being visible to passers by.

kickarse - I'm not sure about that...

It was dd who seemed to get into a state after being home for 10 mins, after comforting her and getting to the root of the problem she brought it up. It was then dh asked me if I was aware of it and so the conversation started

She wasn't upset until she'd been home ten minutes and Daddy already knew about it...

Anway, I think 5 year olds doing PE in their pants and vest is no big deal - it's only the parents making it a big deal.

(I do think it's daft to be made to spend £30 on PE kit though!).

Posie - we are all aware that you don't like the term LO's - get over it. You say things others of us aren't keen on - we don't pick you up on it everytime, it's pathetic.

ROFL!!!

I'm so glad you agree that you have double standards.

Your opinion doesn't really seem to be held in that high regard so its water off a ducks back really love!

Chip, you could be right about why the dd got upset, hard to say as the op seems to have left!

I don't think its a big deal if the kids are ok with it - if they are uncomfortable for any reason and there is £30.00 worth of PE kit nearby then they should definatley be allowed to use it.

kickarse, I haven't left. I have been quietly watching this thread fyi.BUT felt I needed to make you aware hence my reply.

Just opted to keep out. Just couldn't be arsed with how certain people have turned this thread around.

I came her for advice from both sides, I received it and I dont need to get involved in your petty threads.

I happy with the outcome, my lo is happy.

BTW,thanks to thoses that offered constructive and appropriate advice.

Hello Shhh :) I was pretty sure you were still around, I'm sorry if you think me petty, but I'm afraid it greatly irritates me when people post really nasty unnecessary comments on AIBU.

Yes I agree that AIBU involves a degree of rough and tumble and the op's do know that, but some people seem to use AIBU to vent vitriole on people they don't know who are asking for honest advice.

You've just made lots of people happy with your last sentence too

Glad your LO is happy, see you around.....................

i sometimes wonder with these threads which is the chicken and which is the egg?

Does the parent get upset about the PE done in underwear because the child is upset, or does the child get upset because she (and it always is a she) has had absurd notions of modesty piped into her head?

I have never cared about anyone seeing my boys in their pants. Therefore (I believe is is therefore) they do not care about doing PE in their pants.

colditz,we have never piped nonsense into dd's head. She was upset and noone of it was started by dh or myself.

She came to us upset, we felt a need to find out why, we dealt with it..

I was brought up to have no hangups or issues with my body but I can distinctly remember doing pe aged about 5 in just my knickers (didn't wear a vest) and being so embarrassed.
I recall crossing my arms to hide my nipples the whole time I was so uncomfortable.
This was in the late70s. I'd be very pissed off if it happened to my dd now.

Socialisation controls the way we fell we are not born wearing clothes.

Kick....I couldn't comment how people regard you because I've never heard of you, but have a little read around the topic of behaviour and come back to the thread.

I don't feel the need to "read around the topic of behaviour". Now that you've had the opportunity to tho, maybe you would like to explain your behaviour on page 1.