to get DD a white poppy to wear at a remembrance service?

[GallumDrawnAndQuartered]

She is 14 and has been selected by the school to represent her house at their service.

DD is vehemently pacifist and anti-war.

Rather than her get in trouble for refusing to go (which is what she is planning on doing) would it be unreasonable for her to go but to wear a white poppy instead of a red one?

"you seem to be trying to imply that i think the uk is eeeevil and everyone else is as pure as the driven snow"

Can I interest you in a definition of Straw men? It may be of some use to you in future if you want to do debating things.

I think most of the other posters understand the concept, but I've noticed you are struggling a bit.

You said you, or perhaps your family, are from a colonised country. Why are you embarrassed to say which one? Why bring it up if you don't want to say or you think it's irrelevant? You are claiming special insight because of of this, I think?

"eeevil" ..would you mind stopping being so childish? up to you of course

"Wearing a white poppy signifies the view that traditional Remembrance condones war.... But it seems some wearers don't realise that. And as it does signify that opinion, it also signifies disapproval. You might not like it, or personally disapprove of a red poppy, but that's what it signifies."

No, it doesn't. A white poppy has a different focus, that's all. No-one here who is pro-white poppy is anti-red poppy: just that the white poppy focuses more on certain aspects of war and its resolution, and human involvement in that. It focuses on peace and remembrance and the efforts made not to resolve conflicts with military might. These are not insulting, abhorrent, unfeeling sentiments; they are also not out of place at a Remembrance Service.

Yes, it does, it says so on the website.

That's what I mean about wearers not realising what it stands for. You didn't know that.

I'm not a wearer of a white poppy. I just believe in the freedom to wear one, and that it is not an insult/a deliberate self-promoting display.

I don't see where it says on the White Poppy website that the red poppy, in and of itself, condones war.

I believe in the freedom to wear one too.

It says traditional remembrance: that includes the red poppy. And by wearing a white poppy, one is pointedly NOT wearing a red poppy, so you are saying "I am anti-war, and therefore refuse to wear a red poppy" so the clear implication and disapproval is there.

There is no clear disapproval, just a preference between two options. If there were two different ribbons symbolising support for a charity, but focusing on different ideas about that charity, you wouldn't be disapproving of raising funds for either of them. Just that you have your preferred angle. The white poppy has the angle of "no more war" as well as "never forget", which is why some people prefer it, without "disapproving" of red poppies in themselves.

I'm surprised no one has linked this, it's a letter written by war veterans, complaining about the showbiz element of the Poppy Appeal:

{{http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/nov/05/poppies-and-heroes-remembrance-day The Poppy Appeal is subverting Armistice Day]]

Try again:

-and-heroes-remembrance-day The Poppy Appeal is subverting Armistice Day

Why am I even awake let alone on this thread

You are so picking holes.. that war condoning quote is from the white poppy website

You wear one, that's you

Interesting how little you like that association

GothAnneGeddes - your link here.

Another link that expands on the previous one and might add fuel to the fire

Thumbwheel Great link! Really supports what I was saying earlier on:

''Griffin, now a London ambulance driver who served for eight years in the Parachute Regiment, went on: ?The use of the word ?hero? glorifies war and glosses over the ugly reality.

?War is nothing like a John Wayne movie. There is nothing heroic about being blown up in a vehicle, there is nothing heroic about being shot in an ambush and there is nothing heroic about the deaths of countless civilians.

?Calling our soldiers heroes is an attempt to stifle criticism of the wars we are fighting in

The Poppy Appeal is once again subverting Armistice Day. A day that should be about peace and remembrance is turned into a month-long drum roll of support for current wars. This year's campaign has been launched with showbiz hype. The true horror and futility of war is forgotten and ignored.

The public are being urged to wear a poppy in support of "our Heroes". There is nothing heroic about being blown up in a vehicle. There is nothing heroic about being shot in an ambush and there is nothing heroic about fighting in an unnecessary conflict.

Remembrance should be marked with the sentiment "Never Again".

Yes but there are lots of people at the end of the article who don't agree with him. I'm not sure I entirely agree with him - he seems an extreme example - who joins the Paras and then refuses to go on active service?

I do agree that Remembrance should make more of the "never again" sentiment. But I disagree that politicians wearing poppies somehow politicises them - it's just the "done" thing and they (and newsreaders etc.) get vilified if they are not seen to support the Poppy Appeal.

'they (and newsreaders etc.) get vilified if they are not seen to support the Poppy Appeal."

Absolutely - and that's what makes it a political.

I fins the "all service personnel are heroes" thing worrying. ANything which clouds clear thinking is a bad thing, IMHO.

Oh and it clearly does cloud thinking seeker..you only have to read this thread to see that..or see the numerous facebook groups/status about everyone in the forces being tantamount to saintly martyrs ..total madness! The government must bloody love it..I blame the tabloid press.

catholicatheist - "There is nothing heroic about being blown up in a vehicle. There is nothing heroic about being shot in an ambush and there is nothing heroic about fighting in an unnecessary conflict."

You're quite right, there's nothing heroic per se about "being blown up"..however, there is something heroic (I modestly suggest) about wilfully putting yourself in a situation that is likely to result in said conclusion.

catholicatheist - what do you do for a living? I'll warrant the most dangerous thing you do each day is swerve the paper cuts...

''what do you do for a living? I'll warrant the most dangerous thing you do each day is swerve the paper cuts'' ho ho ho ho! Not the case actually but my professional role has no bearing on my beliefs surrounding illegal occupations and disastrous foreign policy which is what I am talking about!

"I dislike hero worship of our troops, but i do think they deserve respect"

Why?

Ah, that's where I disagree. I am prepared to offer respect to all the emergency services, because their only reason for being is to offer humanitarian aid. I am prepared to offer respect to individual service people when they do something that is worthy of respect, but that certainly doesn't include all of them and all of their actions.

Police and fire service ..pretty decent salary given you dont even need 5 GCSE's to get into it. I know a lot of police and a few firemen and again its a great career choice for people who academically wouldnt have gotten graduate jobs but they start off on graduate wages. People who go into war zones and work for the red cross etc those people get my respect.

Also as seeker said, they ONLY want to help people (not all police of course) and so deserve more respect than those prepared to kill in conflicts we should not be involved in.